2020 Elections

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GoCubsGo
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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by GoCubsGo » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:26 am

Vrede too wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:04 am
GoCubsGo wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:41 am
Hmmmm, is Hillary right?


Griping about a POSSIBLE 3rd party run is one thing, blaming the Russians without hard evidence is another. Then, the question is whether Hillary made it more or less likely that Gabbard will go for it.


That was actually misquoted, she was saying Republicans, our distinction without a difference.
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Vrede too
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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by Vrede too » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:34 pm

GoCubsGo wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:26 am
Vrede too wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:04 am
GoCubsGo wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:41 am
Hmmmm, is Hillary right?
Griping about a POSSIBLE 3rd party run is one thing, blaming the Russians without hard evidence is another. Then, the question is whether Hillary made it more or less likely that Gabbard will go for it.
That was actually misquoted, she was saying Republicans, our distinction without a difference.
Ah, I thought you were joking. Who did that massive screw up? Lots of supposedly informed people scolded her for "Russians".
Speaking of Rudy, WTF?

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O Really
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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by O Really » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:42 pm

Vrede too wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:34 pm

Who did that massive screw up? Lots of supposedly informed people scolded her for "Russians".
That would be the Gray Lady, the New York Times, formerly printing "all the news that's fit to print" and now far fallen from its former position of journalistic grandeur.

And really, some of the "supposedly informed people" were likely just taking advantage of an easy excuse for Hillary-bashing and didn't bother to verify anything.

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Vrede too
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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by Vrede too » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:53 pm

O Really wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:42 pm
That would be the Gray Lady, the New York Times, formerly printing "all the news that's fit to print" and now far fallen from its former position of journalistic grandeur.

Wow, that's a YUUUGE typo.

And really, some of the "supposedly informed people" were likely just taking advantage of an easy excuse for Hillary-bashing and didn't bother to verify anything.

I meant prominent Dems, but can't remember if they are ones that are otherwise favorable towards Hillary.
Speaking of Rudy, WTF?

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Vrede too
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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by Vrede too » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:16 pm

We recently discussed how since all Dems get called "socialist' maybe they should start answering, "So?" instead of whining, "Nyuh-uh."
More than a third of millennials polled approve of communism
Biggest threat to world peace? 27% named President Trump, 22% said Kim Jong-Un, and 15% tapped Vladimir Putin


... According to YouGov, which conducted the poll, capitalism, amid a widening divide between the haves and have-nots, has plunged in popularity from a year ago, with one out of every two millennials — ages 23 to 38 — supporting it.

Meanwhile, 36% of millennials polled say that they approve of communism, which is up significantly from 28% in 2018.

Image

Socialism, a dirty word to the president and many of his supporters, has shown a decrease in favorability in all age groups except the Silent Generation (age 74+) and millennials, of which 70% say they’d be likely to vote for a socialist candidate....

Other nuggets from the report include that 22% of millennials believe “society would be better if all private property was abolished,” and that 45% of Generation Z members and millennials believe that “all higher education should be free.”

Image

...
Speaking of Rudy, WTF?

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Vrede too
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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by Vrede too » Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:24 pm

Speaking of Rudy, WTF?

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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by Vrede too » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:25 pm

Joe Biden would beat Trump by 12% and has double-digit lead in primary, Fox News poll finds

Former Vice President Joe Biden is still the Democrat who is most likely to defeat President Donald Trump in a head-to-head matchup, according to a new poll from Fox News.

Fifty-one percent of registered voters said they would vote for Biden in that scenario and 39% said they would vote for Trump. Biden's lead remained strong among registered independents, 33%-23%, but 20% of them preferred "other" to him or Trump and 16% said they didn't know who they would pick.

Trump trailed in almost every demographic except among white people, 46% of whom favored the president over Biden. Forty-four percent of white voters chose Biden.

Forty-six percent of white women went for Biden while white men supported Trump by an 11-point margin. His strongest support was among white men without a college degree. Fifty percent of them favored Trump. Thirty-seven percent picked Biden. White evangelicals chose Trump 68%-24%.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, who has finished second in many recent primary polls, also bested Trump in a hypothetical matchup, but by a more modest 46%-41% margin. Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont beat Trump 49%-41% and South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg tied him at 41%. The poll found former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who is not a candidate, with a two-point edge over Trump, 43%-41%.

Biden was the strong favorite in the primary field among likely Democratic voters at 31%. Next was Warren at 21%, followed by Sanders at 19% and Buttigieg at 7%....

Forty-nine percent of registered voters said Trump should be impeached and removed from office and 45% said he should not....
If your only strength is among poorly educated White male evangelicals, there is definitely something wrong with you.
Speaking of Rudy, WTF?

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Vrede too
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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by Vrede too » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:30 pm

Bloomberg fills an important niche. I was just thinking that we don't have enough ancient, White, male and/or fat cats running for POTUS.
Speaking of Rudy, WTF?

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Vrede too
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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by Vrede too » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:34 pm

GOP Rep. Peter King retiring, giving Dems new 2020 target

... Twenty House Republicans have announced they will not seek reelection. Three other GOP lawmakers have resigned and already left Congress....
In contrast, only 3 or 4 Dems have bailed.
Speaking of Rudy, WTF?

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GoCubsGo
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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by GoCubsGo » Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:10 pm

Vrede too wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:34 pm
GOP Rep. Peter King retiring, giving Dems new 2020 target

... Twenty House Republicans have announced they will not seek reelection. Three other GOP lawmakers have resigned and already left Congress....
In contrast, only 3 or 4 Dems have bailed.
A little bit of proof that the pubs are not as dumb as their public personas.
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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by O Really » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:04 pm

I was playing with the electoral map, below, and have a sure-fire strategy for the Dems. If the Dems can win Florida, which they almost did last time and in which Trump is currently behind, and one of the three mid-western states that Trump barely won last time, Trump is out. So why don't they pick the candidate that is most popular in Florida, and that Wisconsin and Pennsylvania don't hate and go for it? Currently that would be Biden.

https://www.270towin.com/maps/2016-actual-electoral-map

From NYTimes
WASHINGTON — Democrats in the country’s most pivotal general election battlegrounds prefer a moderate presidential nominee who would seek common ground with Republicans rather than pursue an ambitious, progressive agenda, according to a New York Times/Siena College poll of primary voters across six states.

As the Democratic candidates intensify their argument over how best to defeat President Trump, their core voters in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Arizona and Florida are counseling them to pursue a political middle ground.

A majority of those surveyed said they wanted a Democratic nominee who is more moderate than most Democrats, and they overwhelmingly preferred one who would bridge the partisan divide in Washington.

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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by Vrede too » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:37 pm

O Really wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:04 pm
I was playing with the electoral map, below, and have a sure-fire strategy for the Dems. If the Dems can win Florida, which they almost did last time and in which Trump is currently behind, and one of the three mid-western states that Trump barely won last time, Trump is out. So why don't they pick the candidate that is most popular in Florida, and that Wisconsin and Pennsylvania don't hate and go for it? Currently that would be Biden.

https://www.270towin.com/maps/2016-actual-electoral-map ...
You and the Gray Lady may be 100% correct and that calculus will carry a lot of weight with a lot of people, but devil's advocate:

2020 may be an excellent opportunity to do better than an ancient, white, moderate man.
Can Biden generate the enthusiasm needed to win?
2016. :P
Speaking of Rudy, WTF?

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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by O Really » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:40 pm

Vrede too wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:37 pm

You and the Gray Lady may be 100% correct and that calculus will carry a lot of weight with a lot of people, but devil's advocate:

2020 may be an excellent opportunity to do better than an ancient, white, moderate man.
Can Biden generate the enthusiasm needed to win?
2016. :P
Sure and it might be a good idea to pass the ball from the one instead of giving it to Beast Mode, too, but I'm not into hero/goat risks. I just want Trump gone.

I'm not enthusiastic about Biden, or anybody else who currently has a chance for the nomination, but I'll vote for him if he's the nominee. He doesn't generate the enthusiasm of Obama, but also doesn't generate the hate of Hillary, either. 2016 was primarily a personality contest - even more than normal, and a lot of Trump voters were really just Never-Hillary voters. Now Trump is the one with heavy negative numbers. Why put up a lightening rod when you can win if you can make two states happy and don't totally piss of the other Blue ones?

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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by GoCubsGo » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:50 pm

O Really wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:40 pm
Vrede too wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:37 pm

You and the Gray Lady may be 100% correct and that calculus will carry a lot of weight with a lot of people, but devil's advocate:

2020 may be an excellent opportunity to do better than an ancient, white, moderate man.
Can Biden generate the enthusiasm needed to win?
2016. :P
Sure and it might be a good idea to pass the ball from the one instead of giving it to Beast Mode, too, but I'm not into hero/goat risks. I just want Trump gone.

I'm not enthusiastic about Biden, or anybody else who currently has a chance for the nomination, but I'll vote for him if he's the nominee. He doesn't generate the enthusiasm of Obama, but also doesn't generate the hate of Hillary, either. 2016 was primarily a personality contest - even more than normal, and a lot of Trump voters were really just Never-Hillary voters. Now Trump is the one with heavy negative numbers. Why put up a lightening rod when you can win if you can make two states happy and don't totally piss of the other Blue ones?
Pretty much this. I like Warren but I'm not yet convinced she'd be a good President. More importantly, I don't think the country is going to go all in on a polarizing liberal revolution when we've just deposed a dictator.

Edit: apparently Obama agrees with me😝

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 7Amsyinpg5
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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by Vrede too » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:19 pm

GoCubsGo wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:50 pm
O Really wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:40 pm
Sure and it might be a good idea to pass the ball from the one instead of giving it to Beast Mode, too,

>>> :lol: <<<

but I'm not into hero/goat risks. I just want Trump gone.

I'm not enthusiastic about Biden, or anybody else who currently has a chance for the nomination, but I'll vote for him if he's the nominee.

I voted for Hillary, but only because there was a forlorn chance that NC could go blue.

He doesn't generate the enthusiasm of Obama, but also doesn't generate the hate of Hillary, either. 2016 was primarily a personality contest - even more than normal, and a lot of Trump voters were really just Never-Hillary voters. Now Trump is the one with heavy negative numbers. Why put up a lightening rod when you can win if you can make two states happy and don't totally piss of the other Blue ones?
Pretty much this. I like Warren but I'm not yet convinced she'd be a good President. More importantly, I don't think the country is going to go all in on a polarizing liberal revolution when we've just deposed a dictator.

Edit: apparently Obama agrees with me😝

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 7Amsyinpg5
Still devil's advocate:

It makes no difference, they will attack any Dem just as viciously. They've already damaged national security, committed treason and imperiled the presidency* just to go after Biden. Screeching "socialist Pocahontas" is small potatoes.
Joe or Bernie! are the most likely to die or suffer a campaign-ending health crisis after the convention. That will really mess up our team.

What counts is who will put voters in the booth. Y'all might be correct, but I'm not sure that ideological preference for a moderate and real world turnout are the same thing. I am sure that Liz, Bernie and Mayor Pete will generate more buzz than Wonder Bread Joe, but that may not mean as many votes.

My guess is that Bloomberg and Patrick go nowhere. All they'll do is take a few votes from Joe.
Speaking of Rudy, WTF?

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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by neoplacebo » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:24 pm

Don't know about anywhere else, but up here Tom Steyer has been running ads on tv. I like what he says but he's got no chance. But, hell, I'd vote for the Unknown Comic from the old Gong Show over trump.

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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by Vrede too » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:39 pm

neoplacebo wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:24 pm
Don't know about anywhere else, but up here Tom Steyer has been running ads on tv. I like what he says but he's got no chance. But, hell, I'd vote for the Unknown Comic from the old Gong Show over trump.
Not sure what his plan is. He's spent tens of millions and is still around 1%.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/20 ... /national/
Speaking of Rudy, WTF?

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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by O Really » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:02 pm

Vrede too wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:39 pm
neoplacebo wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:24 pm
Don't know about anywhere else, but up here Tom Steyer has been running ads on tv. I like what he says but he's got no chance. But, hell, I'd vote for the Unknown Comic from the old Gong Show over trump.
Not sure what his plan is. He's spent tens of millions and is still around 1%.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/20 ... /national/
High-ego gadfly.

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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by O Really » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:44 pm

I think a large majority of people, blue and red, are sick and tired of all the drama, chaos, corruption, and incompetence. Hard-core Trumpers are going to stick with him no matter what, but an unoffensive middleish candidate who offers an apparent opportunity to resume what was once normal would have a good chance of getting almost all the non hard-core votes. Let Trump keep the Alabamas and anywhere else he won except for Florida and Wisconsin and spend at least the first year cleaning up Trump's mess, get a more positive national opinion of Dems and then nominate a more progressive next time.

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Re: 2020 Elections

Unread post by Vrede too » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:45 pm

O Really wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:44 pm
I think a large majority of people, blue and red, are sick and tired of all the drama, chaos, corruption, and incompetence. Hard-core Trumpers are going to stick with him no matter what, but an unoffensive middleish candidate who offers an apparent opportunity to resume what was once normal would have a good chance of getting almost all the non hard-core votes. Let Trump keep the Alabamas and anywhere else he won except for Florida and Wisconsin and spend at least the first year cleaning up Trump's mess, get a more positive national opinion of Dems and then nominate a more progressive next time.
Might indeed be smartest, but part of me wonders if the only way to get a progressive is reactive. Without Cheney/Shrub, no progressive-appearing (turned out pretty moderate) Black man.
Speaking of Rudy, WTF?

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