Tree Hugger Thread

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Vrede too
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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by Vrede too » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:57 pm

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:36 pm
... or use them to start a discussion on the topic ...
Half my reason for posting them. The opportunity to take action is just extra incentive for me.

Stop the World's Largest Nuclear Waste Dump (in NM) -- and Decades of Massive Nuclear Transport (petition)
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:17 am

Vrede too wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:57 pm
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:36 pm
... or use them to start a discussion on the topic ...
Half my reason for posting them. The opportunity to take action is just extra incentive for me.

Stop the World's Largest Nuclear Waste Dump (in NM) -- and Decades of Massive Nuclear Transport (petition)

My biggest concern about nuclear has always been the waste and our corporate media ignoring the cost of the waste.
They never use the cost of protecting this stuff for its deadly lifetime in their cost evaluations. They just assume the taxpayer will take care of it for free.

Consider the waste and nuclear becomes the most expensive of all. Put these future cost off onto these private companies that want to build them and they all disappear. Problem solved.
George Carlin said “The owners know the truth. It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by Vrede too » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:04 am

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:17 am
My biggest concern about nuclear has always been the waste and our corporate media ignoring the cost of the waste.
They never use the cost of protecting this stuff for its deadly lifetime in their cost evaluations. They just assume the taxpayer will take care of it for free.

Consider the waste and nuclear becomes the most expensive of all. Put these future cost off onto these private companies that want to build them and they all disappear. Problem solved.
Yep, without huge government subsidies, including waste management and the liability limits that no other energy source enjoys, there is no nuclear power industry.

Also, you will often see people claiming that nuclear power is greenhouse gas free. Even though fossil fuels are not directly used to produce the electricity, a lot of them went into mining, milling, manufacture, transport, construction, operations including massive security not required for other energy sources, decommissioning, waste transport AND the entirely unknowable carbon footprint of waste disposal, monitoring for thousands of years and dealing with leaks.

Then there are the impacts of the accidents, frequent smaller ones AND the occasional massive one like Fukushima and Chernobyl. What has been their greenhouse gas costs?
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:29 pm

Vrede too wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:04 am
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:17 am
My biggest concern about nuclear has always been the waste and our corporate media ignoring the cost of the waste.
They never use the cost of protecting this stuff for its deadly lifetime in their cost evaluations. They just assume the taxpayer will take care of it for free.

Consider the waste and nuclear becomes the most expensive of all. Put these future cost off onto these private companies that want to build them and they all disappear. Problem solved.
Yep, without huge government subsidies, including waste management and the liability limits that no other energy source enjoys, there is no nuclear power industry.

Also, you will often see people claiming that nuclear power is greenhouse gas free. Even though fossil fuels are not directly used to produce the electricity, a lot of them went into mining, milling, manufacture, transport, construction, operations including massive security not required for other energy sources, decommissioning, waste transport AND the entirely unknowable carbon footprint of waste disposal, monitoring for thousands of years and dealing with leaks.

Then there are the impacts of the accidents, frequent smaller ones AND the occasional massive one like Fukushima and Chernobyl. What has been their greenhouse gas costs?

To me, just the arrogance of even dreaming that we can care for this material for its life as as extreme hazard says as much as any possible argument for.

Or at least as I understand how long this stuff is dangerous.
George Carlin said “The owners know the truth. It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:28 am

The New York Times: He Was Dow's 'Dioxin Lawyer.' Now He's Trump's Choice to Run the Superfund Program..
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/28/clim ... rfund.html

Monsanto to Dow to trump's watchdog for the public.
Yeah sure.
George Carlin said “The owners know the truth. It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by Leo Lyons » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:04 pm

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:36 pm
it there something wrong with passing on petitions?
I sign some, some I have already signed and some I Really Don't Care, Y Do U?
ignore them, or use them to start a discussion on the topic, but why complain
interesting article. global warming will cause changes everywhere. A real shame that nearly all republicans refuse to believe it's real - because fox told them so
I'm not complaining, billy.pilgrim; I was contributing to the thread. Most all posts in this thread are petitions; mine wasn't, rather it is to bring attention to an issue that idiots world wide say isn't happening.

I have visited the Cedars of Lebanon, and it's sad that global warming (or climate change) is slowly bringing about it's demise.

I'm sorry if my post in this thread was construed as snarky. It wasn't, nor was it a slap about petitions.

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by Leo Lyons » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:05 am

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by Vrede too » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:09 am

It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by Leo Lyons » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:54 pm

"Donate to NRDC to help protect the air, land, and water from forces of pollution and corporate greed. Your donation will help us save wildlife and wild places by sponsoring some of the hardest hitting cases and campaigns in defense of nature."

I'm curious as to how any money that's donated helps to protect the air, land, and water from forces of pollution and corporate greed? :headscratch:
Accidents happen. Throwing money isn't going to prevent an accident happening.

Now, how does donating money protect from corporate greed; unless you are really contributing to corporate greed? What does sponsoring a case or campaign really do?

I wonder if people really read these pleas for money, or actually donate to these pleas? -0-?

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:40 pm

Leo Lyons wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:54 pm
"Donate to NRDC to help protect the air, land, and water from forces of pollution and corporate greed. Your donation will help us save wildlife and wild places by sponsoring some of the hardest hitting cases and campaigns in defense of nature."

I'm curious as to how any money that's donated helps to protect the air, land, and water from forces of pollution and corporate greed? :headscratch:
Accidents happen. Throwing money isn't going to prevent an accident happening.

Now, how does donating money protect from corporate greed; unless you are really contributing to corporate greed? What does sponsoring a case or campaign really do?

I wonder if people really read these pleas for money, or actually donate to these pleas? -0-?
Really? Using money to fix problems is foreign to you?

Hope your house doesn’t have gutters.

But really Leo, doesn’t spreading awareness and a few lawsuits here and there effect change.

How young are you?
George Carlin said “The owners know the truth. It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by Vrede too » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:49 pm

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:40 pm
Really? Using money to fix problems is foreign to you?

Hope your house doesn’t have gutters.

But really Leo, doesn’t spreading awareness and a few lawsuits here and there effect change.

How young are you?
Thanks.

Mr.B used to whine about donation pleas, also, even though I NEVER quote them or link donation pages - you navigated there on your own - except very rarely for disaster relief, and mostly then because it's hard to sort the good ones from the bad ones. Is that pointless, too?
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:12 pm

Vrede too wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:49 pm
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:40 pm
Really? Using money to fix problems is foreign to you?

Hope your house doesn’t have gutters.

But really Leo, doesn’t spreading awareness and a few lawsuits here and there effect change.

How young are you?
Thanks.

Mr.B used to whine about donation pleas, also, even though I NEVER quote them or link donation pages - you navigated there on your own - except very rarely for disaster relief, and mostly then because it's hard to sort the good ones from the bad ones. Is that pointless, too?

https://www.climate.news/2018-01-14-nas ... osing.html

this one is claimed to have had a potential right up there with the dinosaur extinction, but thanks to the environmentalists
George Carlin said “The owners know the truth. It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by Vrede too » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:43 pm

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:12 pm
https://www.climate.news/2018-01-14-nas ... osing.html

this one is claimed to have had a potential right up there with the dinosaur extinction, but thanks to the environmentalists
Yep, we can make things better, and our donations to green groups helped avert disaster in the face of hysterical deniers and people predicting doom and economic destruction from banning CFCs and the other ozone depleting nasties.

The article appears on Climate News, an AGW denying site that doesn't have the stones to ID who they are and where their money comes from. I wonder if they get the irony.
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:36 pm

Vrede too wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:43 pm
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:12 pm
https://www.climate.news/2018-01-14-nas ... osing.html

this one is claimed to have had a potential right up there with the dinosaur extinction, but thanks to the environmentalists
Yep, we can make things better, and our donations to green groups helped avert disaster in the face of hysterical deniers and people predicting doom and economic destruction from banning CFCs and the other ozone depleting nasties.

The article appears on Climate News, an AGW denying site that doesn't have the stones to ID who they are and where their money comes from. I wonder if they get the irony.


I clicked on some top 10 doomsday article a month or so back - it could have been here - it listed losing the ozone way up at the top.

leo would have to be in his 20s or 30s not to see what was done to bring us back from close to several edges. we almost lost all the big birds, burning rivers, mountains of burning trash, and smog so thick people couldn't go outside for days at a time
George Carlin said “The owners know the truth. It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by Vrede too » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:41 pm

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:36 pm
I clicked on some top 10 doomsday article a month or so back - it could have been here - it listed losing the ozone way up at the top.

leo would have to be in his 20s or 30s not to see what was done to bring us back from close to several edges. we almost lost all the big birds, burning rivers, mountains of burning trash, and smog so thick people couldn't go outside for days at a time
He claims to be old and retired. I wonder if it's just green groups that chap his ass or whether he thinks all donations to activists and charities are wasted, including churches, veterans and LEO support groups. Could just be an excuse for being miserly.
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by Leo Lyons » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:37 pm

Vrede too wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:49 pm
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:40 pm
Really? Using money to fix problems is foreign to you?
Mr.B used to whine about donation pleas, also, even though I NEVER quote them or link donation pages - you navigated there on your own - except very rarely for disaster relief, and mostly then because it's hard to sort the good ones from the bad ones. Is that pointless, too?
Great minds work together! :lol:

Mr.B still messing with your head? You seem to have a knack for re-living his most glorious moments with you! :mrgreen:

I clicked on your petition link; the red DONATE box is highly prominent in the upper right corner, as it is in all activist-type webpages. Chill out.

First of all, I'm not whining, I asked how throwing money is going to help protect the air, land, and water from forces of pollution and corporate greed. Just a simple question. I understand donations being used to CLEAN UP "air, land, and water from forces of pollution", but what steps would be taken to "protect" same from "forces"? What "forces"? The way the wording is, "corporate greed" is asking for donations.

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by Leo Lyons » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:50 pm

Vrede too wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:41 pm
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:36 pm
I clicked on some top 10 doomsday article a month or so back - it could have been here - it listed losing the ozone way up at the top.

leo would have to be in his 20s or 30s not to see what was done to bring us back from close to several edges. we almost lost all the big birds, burning rivers, mountains of burning trash, and smog so thick people couldn't go outside for days at a time
He claims to be old and retired. I wonder if it's just green groups that chap his ass or whether he thinks all donations to activists and charities are wasted, including churches, veterans and LEO support groups. Could just be an excuse for being miserly.
I'm quite older than 20s or 30s; retired, but not that old, whatever 'that old' is. :lol:

I have to question all donations, especially when the ones asking aggressively pursue donations; whether it's some environmentalists, churchy groups, or LEO support groups. My donations go to St. Judes, Ronald McDonald House, Shriners, and miscellaneous charities that help children. F*ck the drug addicts, alcoholics, and other self-inflicted bullshit. LEO support groups? Sure, if I check them out first. I get at least 6-7 calls a week from some recorded message seeking donations to paramedics, police, fire, and what'n all. So when I see "to help protect", I get a bit leery.

Spend money to fix it if it's already broke, don't stand there looking at it and whine about it.

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by Vrede too » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:56 pm

Image

The petition to Sec. Ryan Zinke reads:

"Your unethical behavior, mounting scandals, waste of taxpayer money, and policies to hand over public lands to the fossil fuel and mining industries make you unfit for public service. You must resign immediately."
I have no expectation that it will work, it's just sometimes satisfying to tell an asshole that he's an asshole. Plus, future analysts and historians will have the record of the petitions he received.
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:30 am

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... roup-says/


https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... os-707642/

"Not included in the evaluation process are the potential effects of exposure to chemicals in the air, ground or water."


"until recently, 95 percent of asbestos used in the United States came from Brazil, while the rest came from Russia. But the South American nation recently banned the mining and sale of the toxic substance, opening the door for Russia to fill the gap, which will be even larger if the U.S. resumes using the carcinogen in building materials. Russian asbestos manufacturers are thrilled."


Trump said, "I believe that the movement against asbestos was led by the mob, because it was often mob-related companies that would do the asbestos removal."



And there is nothing required in these applications to deal with disposal, renovations and demolition.
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Re: Tree Hugger Thread

Unread post by Vrede too » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:20 am

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:30 am
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... roup-says/

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... os-707642/

"Not included in the evaluation process are the potential effects of exposure to chemicals in the air, ground or water."

"until recently, 95 percent of asbestos used in the United States came from Brazil, while the rest came from Russia. But the South American nation recently banned the mining and sale of the toxic substance, opening the door for Russia to fill the gap, which will be even larger if the U.S. resumes using the carcinogen in building materials. Russian asbestos manufacturers are thrilled."

Trump said, "I believe that the movement against asbestos was led by the mob, because it was often mob-related companies that would do the asbestos removal."

And there is nothing required in these applications to deal with disposal, renovations and demolition.
Somewhat understandable.

Image
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

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