A Florida Man...

Generally an unmoderated forum for discussion of pretty much any topic. The focus however, is usually politics.
Post Reply
User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26298
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: A Florida Governor...

Unread post by Vrede too »

O Really wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:50 pm
California, at least SoCal, shut down the beaches in steps. They were open for "limited" use after most parks were closed; then when there were too many people were at the most popular ones, started closing down the convenient beach parking lots (yeah I know, "convenient beach parking lot" sounds like an oxymoron to a Floridian), then stopped allowing "gathering" or sitting, and eventually closed for all uses. All based on how crowding was being managed and/ or distancing compliance. I'm pretty sure that if we'd had the conditions that were in Clearwater, Ft. Lauderdale, etc. that Newsom would have shut them down quickly.

Unless DeSantis kept the beaches open for personal gain (which of course his cult leader Trump would have done), I wouldn't even joke about his decision being criminal. But given what he knew or should have known, and given his lack of meaningful action until Trump told him what to do, I'd see major negligence.
Do anticipated campaign donations and other political benefits count as personal gain?

Seriously, I get it, but it's still strange that self-serving informed decisions can be made that kill hundreds or thousands without consequence when the impassioned killer of one gets the death penalty.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
billy.pilgrim
Rear admiral
Posts: 8794
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: A Florida Governor...

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

O Really wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:50 pm
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:04 pm
O Really wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:44 pm
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:13 pm

He made a bad call and people died, but still a call no different than all other repugs before and after and not so much different than made by nearly all dems.
Not exactly. If he made a bad call based on a reasonable analysis of the information he had, fine - shit happens. But Newsom and Inslee didn't wait for Trump to tell them what to do, which is what DeSantis said he did. And DeSantis had several conditions that didn't apply to most of the country, which he should have considered. Like knowing he was going to get a huge influx of rowdy spring breakers into a state with a lot of at-risk residents.

No, DeSantis was playing the role of the mayor in "Jaws," and ought to have to pay some substantial political price and public abuse.
Agreed, I thought "mass murderer" was a little strong, especially considering that no other beach front state east of California had done anything.
California, at least SoCal, shut down the beaches in steps. They were open for "limited" use after most parks were closed; then when there were too many people were at the most popular ones, started closing down the convenient beach parking lots (yeah I know, "convenient beach parking lot" sounds like an oxymoron to a Floridian), then stopped allowing "gathering" or sitting, and eventually closed for all uses. All based on how crowding was being managed and/ or distancing compliance. I'm pretty sure that if we'd had the conditions that were in Clearwater, Ft. Lauderdale, etc. that Newsom would have shut them down quickly.

Unless DeSantis kept the beaches open for personal gain (which of course his cult leader Trump would have done), I wouldn't even joke about his decision being criminal. But given what he knew or should have known, and given his lack of meaningful action until Trump told him what to do, I'd see major negligence.

Agreed for the most part. But still, his closing down the state before 3/4 would have put him light years ahead of other spring break beach party states, Texas, LA, MISS, ALA, GA,SC and NC.

Everybody except calif and wash were late and they had more deaths than Florida

User avatar
O Really
Vice admiral
Posts: 13096
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: A Florida Governor...

Unread post by O Really »

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:54 pm

Everybody except calif and wash were late and they had more deaths than Florida
California has reported about the same number of cases as Florida, with about twice the population. But a lot of the havoc wreaked by the spring breakers would have been wherever they went home to.

I probably wouldn't be so hard on DeSantis if the spring break crowds had been a little earlier. But distancing was already a national issue when people outside of Florida wouldn't even have known about the beach crowds except for the pics expressing a general WTF question. So at the time those pics went national, most everybody knew that wasn't going to end well. Then the interviews, asking about anybody taking caution and getting the now famous "nothing gonna keep me from partying" clip. So at the point of national attention to distancing and national exposure (in a bad way), DeSantis did nothing - because Trump hadn't told him what to do.

I'd agree when they did act, it was poorly thought out and poorly implemented. But again, there were by that time live real-time examples of how to do it, and they were ignored.

Outside of Florida, idiot governor of Alabama actually said, "we're not China or California..." Yeah, well Alabama has a lot more per 100K reported cases than anywhere in California.

They were all warned.

User avatar
billy.pilgrim
Rear admiral
Posts: 8794
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: A Florida Governor...

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

O Really wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:38 pm
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:54 pm

Everybody except calif and wash were late and they had more deaths than Florida
California has reported about the same number of cases as Florida, with about twice the population. But a lot of the havoc wreaked by the spring breakers would have been wherever they went home to.

I probably wouldn't be so hard on DeSantis if the spring break crowds had been a little earlier. But distancing was already a national issue when people outside of Florida wouldn't even have known about the beach crowds except for the pics expressing a general WTF question. So at the time those pics went national, most everybody knew that wasn't going to end well. Then the interviews, asking about anybody taking caution and getting the now famous "nothing gonna keep me from partying" clip. So at the point of national attention to distancing and national exposure (in a bad way), DeSantis did nothing - because Trump hadn't told him what to do.

I'd agree when they did act, it was poorly thought out and poorly implemented. But again, there were by that time live real-time examples of how to do it, and they were ignored.

Outside of Florida, idiot governor of Alabama actually said, "we're not China or California..." Yeah, well Alabama has a lot more per 100K reported cases than anywhere in California.

They were all warned.

Isn't SC a big spring break and vacation hot spot? Still no state action at the beach.
I agree that DeSantis acted as any and all repug governors.
The article was way over the top whiney. finger pointing everywhere except personal responsibility.

It hit hardest on the west coast first and they dealt with it the best.

Florida left the responsibility to the counties and most closed the beaches long before other parts of the country. I complained then about closing beaches and crowding kids into hotel rooms.

User avatar
O Really
Vice admiral
Posts: 13096
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: A Florida Governor...

Unread post by O Really »

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:27 pm
I complained then about closing beaches and crowding kids into hotel rooms.
You did, and I agree with you. But since they already missed their chance to head off the crowd before it got there, they had to start somewhere.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26298
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: A Florida Governor...

Unread post by Vrede too »

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:27 pm
Isn't SC a big spring break and vacation hot spot? Still no state action at the beach....
Better than SC ain't a very strong sales pitch. :P
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
billy.pilgrim
Rear admiral
Posts: 8794
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: A Florida Governor...

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

Vrede too wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:42 pm
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:27 pm
Isn't SC a big spring break and vacation hot spot? Still no state action at the beach....
Better than SC ain't a very strong sales pitch. :P
I never been there but I've heard of myrtle beach as a vacation destination a time or two.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26298
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: A Florida Governor...

Unread post by Vrede too »

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:56 pm
I never been there but I've heard of myrtle beach as a vacation destination a time or two.
Right you are:

Coronavirus not stopping some spring breakers in Myrtle Beach

SC.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
O Really
Vice admiral
Posts: 13096
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: A Florida Man...

Unread post by O Really »

Meanwhile, we've got empty beaches, light traffic on sidewalks and streets, except for the bicyclists who are all out, practically everybody wearing face covering and doing the "corona dance" to avoid getting close to another walker. Grocery stores and pharmacies all have big distancing warning signs, markers for standing on line, one-way aisles, plexi-shields, workers in face covering and lots of wiping. Seeing pics of people walking normally in groups along the sidewalk or beach just looks plain weird. It's a new life.

Image

User avatar
billy.pilgrim
Rear admiral
Posts: 8794
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: A Florida Man...

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

The March 4 (the beginning date of the now in progress party that the article uses to illustrate the incompetence of the evil Florida governor) date comes 5 days after Dr. Faucci said that we could go about our daily activities.

⁵ beaches were left to local cities and counties - everywhere - not just in Florida


Now stop making me defend repugs - it makes me feel all dirty

User avatar
O Really
Vice admiral
Posts: 13096
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: A Florida Man...

Unread post by O Really »

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:08 am

Now stop making me defend repugs - it makes me feel all dirty
It do, indeed. :lol:

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26298
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: A Florida Man...

Unread post by Vrede too »

We all knew enough to call the kids idiots, whatever state they were gathering in. Why not the leaders that allowed it?
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
billy.pilgrim
Rear admiral
Posts: 8794
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: A Florida Man...

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

Vrede too wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:29 am
We all knew enough to call the kids idiots, whatever state they were gathering in. Why not the leaders that allowed it?
If DeSantis is a mass murderer for not shutting everything down before March 4th, then what about Faucci and the CDC saying wash your hands just a few days earlier?

Everyone should have acted earlier and although it was republicans and trump that pushed against most of the science along with some dems, there's plenty of blame at every level. Maybe we'll do better in the next pandemic. Maybe hospitals will have enough equipment and supplies for whatever may come

Too much over the top hindsight hits me as such a "fox"ish whine that it makes me want to pick it apart.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26298
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: A Florida Man...

Unread post by Vrede too »

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:00 am
If DeSantis is a mass murderer for not shutting everything down before March 4th, then what about Faucci and the CDC saying wash your hands just a few days earlier? ...
I have not said anything about "before March 4th".

I get your point, but things moved fast and that's where DeSantis and others failed. By March 10, for example, we knew enough to be criticizing the kids on this forum and NC's Gov Cooper had declared a state of emergency. PINO, DeSantis and other mostly Repug Spring Break destination govs still fiddled.
Too much over the top hindsight hits me as such a "fox"ish whine that it makes me want to pick it apart.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4086

Subtracting the things that IMPOSPOTUS kept hidden from everyone, there's a lot there that the govs did know, and I think hindsight is exactly what we need when tens of thousands have perished.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
billy.pilgrim
Rear admiral
Posts: 8794
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: A Florida Man...

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

Vrede too wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:14 am
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:00 am
If DeSantis is a mass murderer for not shutting everything down before March 4th, then what about Faucci and the CDC saying wash your hands just a few days earlier? ...
I have not said anything about "before March 4th".

I get your point, but things moved fast and that's where DeSantis and others failed. By March 10, for example, we knew enough to be criticizing the kids on this forum and NC's Gov Cooper had declared a state of emergency. PINO, DeSantis and other mostly Repug Spring Break destination govs still fiddled.

The article describes him as failing to stop a party that was in full swing on March 4, which would have meant travelers arrived by the 3rd and the party wasn't at the beach anyway.

That was the article's big example - it was way over the top and, for me, ruined the entire article by using extreme nonsensical examples. The author might do better writing for the War on Christmas crowd - I don't buy it.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26298
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: A Florida Man...

Unread post by Vrede too »

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:27 am
The article describes him as failing to stop a party that was in full swing on March 4, which would have meant travelers arrived by the 3rd and the party wasn't at the beach anyway.

That was the article's big example - it was way over the top and, for me, ruined the entire article by using extreme nonsensical examples. The author might do better writing for the War on Christmas crowd - I don't buy it.
The Costly Toll of Not Shutting Down Spring Break Earlier

... Cases as far away as California and Massachusetts have been linked to the Winter Party Festival, a beachside dance party and fundraiser for the LGBTQ community held March 4-10....

The governor, who did not order people to stay home until April 1, has said the state supported local governments that ordered event cancellations and beach closures but that it was not his role to step in first.

“Let’s have tailored approaches, surgical approaches, that are going to work best for those regions,” DeSantis said at a news conference March 24. “These blunt measures — you wouldn’t want to do them on a community where the virus hasn’t spread.”

... On March 6, the city of Miami, which is separate from Miami Beach, canceled the Ultra Music Festival, a marquee electronic dance music event that draws tens of thousands of people....

“We should live our lives normally,” with public health safeguards in place, Mayor Carlos Gimenez of Miami-Dade County said March 5.

By March 12, he had reversed course and canceled the Miami Open tennis tournament and the county youth fair. The fairgrounds now house a field hospital....

Further north, near Orlando, people streamed into the six Disney World theme parks before they closed March 15....
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
billy.pilgrim
Rear admiral
Posts: 8794
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: A Florida Man...

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

and they mentioned other examples as well, but had already shown their whining.
Sure DeSantis is an asshole, but here he's just one of the pack. To single him out as something special is nothing short of fox. It loses me every time.

User avatar
O Really
Vice admiral
Posts: 13096
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: A Florida Man...

Unread post by O Really »

From NYT - probably "fake news" :roll:

Relative success in the West

Epidemiologists have praised the aggressive stay-at-home orders in California, Oregon and Washington for helping to limit the spread of the coronavirus, a contrast to relatively slower moves in New York State and elsewhere.

As of this morning, there have been more than 9,300 virus-related deaths in New York, compared with just over 1,200 total for the three Pacific Coast states.

Some say the effects of the western states’ moves have been overlooked in a country where news outlets are concentrated in New York City and Washington, D.C.

Quotable: “California and the Bay Area response is impressive because it was done before there were obvious and tangible risks,” said Dr. Robert Wachter at the University of California, San Francisco. “New York acted in a more predictable way.”

Another angle: Space and privacy have emerged as a class divide: more valuable than ever to those who have it and potentially fatal to those who don’t.

User avatar
billy.pilgrim
Rear admiral
Posts: 8794
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: A Florida Man...

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

https://wrestletalk.com/news/florida-go ... -business/

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis deemed WWE an essential business

User avatar
O Really
Vice admiral
Posts: 13096
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: A Florida Man...

Unread post by O Really »

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:23 pm
https://wrestletalk.com/news/florida-go ... -business/

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis deemed WWE an essential business
Can we now all agree that the man is an idiot pile of corruption?

Post Reply