Failed prohibition

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O Really
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by O Really » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:12 am

As the gun ummm, "enthusiasts" repeat ad infinitim, "when guns are outlawed..."
And they're right, to an extent. Making something illegal has never totally prevented it. But what it does do is make it legal to punish people for behaviours deemed unacceptable. So the question really should not end with "what do we want to prevent" but instead, "what is the best thing to do when it occurs." I'd argue that the best thing to do for somebody committing non-violent financial offenses is to totally ruin their financial life, not to put them in jail. I'd say the best thing to do to somebody who harms their own body is to get them medical/psychological assistance, not to put them in jail.

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Leo Lyons
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Leo Lyons » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:32 pm

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:49 am
O Really wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:22 pm
Nope. Can't happen. Drug testing policy.
Where's leo?
Leo who?

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neoplacebo
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by neoplacebo » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:54 pm

Leo Lyons wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:33 pm
neoplacebo wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:35 pm
I got a reprimand once for failing to pursue charges on a simple possession of pot because of my personal opinion of pot use; however I would readily bust anyone for peddling the hard shit. I've seen the misery, devastation, and sexual exploitation of drug addiction, and it's not pretty. Drugs are nobody's friend, dealers are opportunists, caring not whom they destroy. I don't regret one day of my (quote:) "failed prohibition". I'd do it all over again.

I can definitely say that if heroin were legal and came with free syringes and instructions, I would not go and get some heroin.
If you were addicted to it, you would be surprised at what you would (there's rarely any 'would not') do to get it.

Heroin is comparable to an overdose of aspirin compared to much of the scary shit out there; there's some bad, bad stuff that the drug advocates can't seem to grasp how volatile and dangerous it is. Most drug advocates still think DEA wants to take away their nose candy and their pot. That stuff right there is barely the tip of the iceberg.

Thanks for your input. Compared to the previous hateful banter, it was a breath of fresh air! :thumbup:
If you had let the "offender" go with a reprimand you wouldn't have gotten a reprimand. What the fuck did you do that for? Headquarters doesn't know every thing you do on the beat unless you tell them. You could have let the guy go or not even approached him in the first place if pot was the only reason for your cop interest in him.

I agree heroin is addictive; so is tobacco. What do you think would happen if tonight at midnight tobacco in all forms were declared illegal? This is what would happen: after smokers started running out of tobacco they'd start looking for it, and they would do damn near anything to get it, including minor criminal offenses which would turn into major offenses if the senseless ban continued.

I agree that the advent of synthetic pot and other unknown chemical concoctions are a hazard, but you have to realize these things would not exist if pot and other popular ways of getting high were legal. Throughout your posts on this matter you continually refuse to recognize this. Many others in the legal and law enforcement community have recognized the futility and just stupidity of some of the drug laws.

Oh, thanks for the compliment; I never think of myself as a breath of fresh air.....mostly a shit rain or a cyphoon.

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Leo Lyons
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Leo Lyons » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:13 pm

Vrede too wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:35 am
Man up and deal with the "snark", you've earned it and will get more of it EVERY time you take on this topic.
Damn, I must have went through two boxes of Kleenex while reading your heart-rendering diatribe; I envisioned your waving Old Glory while standing on your shiny new soapbox. (I didn't listen for "America The Beautiful" playing in the background)

Inasmuch as you worked in health care, I can see your desire to see poor ignorant people strung out on drugs; I mean after all, job security is job security, right? Hell, drug use is like cancer, if they found a cure for cancer, and illegal drugs were totally eliminated, the "cancer drug" makers and you drug-loving imbeciles wouldn't have (or have had) a well-paying job.

Speaking of cancer, illegal drugs (heroin, cocaine, meth, opium, date-rape compounds, LSD, and such) are in themselves a cancer; a cancer on society; they have no useful purpose but to line the pockets of the makers and the dealers who don't give a rat's ass about the consequences of their use.

Those of you who rabidly advocate legalization or controls on drug use should have to walk or drive with the beat of a cop who sees the results of drugs everyday; see the pitiful conditions poor starving children live in while their sore-covered, smelly parents lie on a dog shit or puke covered floor in a drug-induced stupor. I've seen that. How you can even think that controls or improved medical help will stop that, is beyond me. The answer is complete extermination of resources to manufacture the heinous crap. It'll never happen; I'm aware of that; not as long as there's the want for it, (you) enough money to buy it, and enough corruptness in apathetic LEO's and politicians to cover it up.
Man up and deal with the "snark", you've earned it and will get more of it EVERY time you take on this topic.
Yeah, I know you're the expert on "this topic" and I'm pissing in the wind bantering back and forth with a flaming sociopath who has answers to all of life's idiosyncrasies. I've already said your male enhancement pills are working, you're a bigger prick than ever.

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Leo Lyons
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Leo Lyons » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:39 pm

neoplacebo wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:54 pm

If you had let the "offender" go with a reprimand you wouldn't have gotten a reprimand. What the fuck did you do that for? Headquarters doesn't know every thing you do on the beat unless you tell them. You could have let the guy go or not even approached him in the first place if pot was the only reason for your cop interest in him.
Without going into detail, pot wasn't the only "cop interest" I had. I didn't report the offender's release to my superiors, someone else inadvertently did.

I agree heroin is addictive; so is tobacco. What do you think would happen if tonight at midnight tobacco in all forms were declared illegal? This is what would happen: after smokers started running out of tobacco they'd start looking for it, and they would do damn near anything to get it, including minor criminal offenses which would turn into major offenses if the senseless ban continued.
Tobacco and alcohol both are addictive, but neither have the addictive qualities of drugs. There are some drugs that will hook you with one use, while others set off a craving for more after each use; which leads to "they would do damn near anything to get it, including minor criminal offenses which would turn into major offenses". Drugs legally or illegally obtained produce these traits; i.e., if someone addicted didn't have the money to buy drugs, they're going to get the money somehow. Going to a "treatment center" MIGHT ease the cravings temporarily.

I agree that the advent of synthetic pot and other unknown chemical concoctions are a hazard, but you have to realize these things would not exist if pot and other popular ways of getting high were legal. Throughout your posts on this matter you continually refuse to recognize this. Many others in the legal and law enforcement community have recognized the futility and just stupidity of some of the drug laws.
Perhaps you've not noticed, but whenever a new product is introduced on the market, thousand of copycats appear. I don't own any of these, but let's use Copper Chef cookware for example. It's supposed to be the best cookware to come along since sliced bread, and it's not cheap.
Go into any cut-rate store, a "As Seen on TV" store, and you'll find plenty of knock-off copies of Copper Chef cookware that sell for far less than the name brand. Cheaper, watered down drugs are no different.
I'm not "recognizing" because I know for a fact. I've seen it first hand; and I am keenly aware of the futility of drug prohibition; but it's necessary.
Contrary to Vrede's knowledgeable dribblings, there's no profit in it for DEA, no big pay bonuses, rewards, or national claims to fame. Knowing that someone's life or family will not be torn apart is the rewards.


Oh, thanks for the compliment; I never think of myself as a breath of fresh air.....mostly a shit rain or a cyphoon.
I was unaware you and Vrede were related. Twins?

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Leo Lyons
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Leo Lyons » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:44 pm

O Really wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:12 am
As the gun ummm, "enthusiasts" repeat ad infinitim, "when guns are outlawed..."
And they're right, to an extent. Making something illegal has never totally prevented it. But what it does do is make it legal to punish people for behaviours deemed unacceptable. So the question really should not end with "what do we want to prevent" but instead, "what is the best thing to do when it occurs." I'd argue that the best thing to do for somebody committing non-violent financial offenses is to totally ruin their financial life, not to put them in jail. I'd say the best thing to do to somebody who harms their own body is to get them medical/psychological assistance, not to put them in jail.
People choose their own paths in life. Obviously, you chose not to be a drug dealer, a car thief, a stock market shyster, or whatever.
My job was to pursue and apprehend, confiscate and destroy. I had nothing to do with legal proceedings cause by one's life choice.
Does that bother my conscience? No.

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Vrede too
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Vrede too » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:22 pm

Not bothering to open the newest whining, but since a post is visible to me -
neoplacebo wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:54 pm
... I agree that the advent of synthetic pot and other unknown chemical concoctions are a hazard, but you have to realize these things would not exist if pot and other popular ways of getting high were legal. Throughout your posts on this matter you continually refuse to recognize this. Many others in the legal and law enforcement community have recognized the futility and just stupidity of some of the drug laws.

Oh, thanks for the compliment; I never think of myself as a breath of fresh air.....mostly a shit rain or a cyphoon.
"breath of fresh air" often, "shit rain" (on others) occasionally, dubmass hominy, but I can honestly say that I've never thought of you as "a cyphoon" or a tyclone.

Bingo.

The sexual exploitation of drug addiction and the unfriendly, opportunistic, destructive dealers, along with much of the "misery, devastation" are creations of Leo Lyons' highly profitable team, not the drugs themselves, and he did nothing to reduce the negatives that drugs do engender.

"drug advocates" is the same desperate and dishonest BS that billy.pilgrim called Leo Lyons out on yesterday and Leo Lyons cowered from, as usual. Other than some approval for pot and shrooms, NO ONE here has advocated other drug use. Rather, we have advocated for a rational, non-racist, healthy, educated, cost-effective, compassionate society that values freedom and personal responsibility. Leo Lyons continues his career of wussy lies and straw men because he can't face this.

"there's some bad, bad stuff that the drug advocates can't seem to grasp how volatile and dangerous it is."

Riiiight, because a self-serving prohibition advocate knows soooo much more about this than an ER RN. :lolno:

Oh look, Leo Lyons cowers and deflect from the point that legalization does NOT increase abuse. Poor baby, maybe there's a drug that will give him a spine.

Yep, addicts do pursue their fixes, often breaking different laws and hurting others along the way. Leo Lyons has just made the case for legalization, but his brain is too addled from decades of addiction to prohibition to connect with reality. Same thing for his inability to comprehend that most of the designer drugs he's now desperately trying to shift the discussion to have zero customers if less harmful options are available, as neoplacebo accurately says.
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

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neoplacebo
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by neoplacebo » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:14 pm

Well, Leo. you need to understand that addiction is addiction no matter if it's alcohol, tobacco, sex, gambling, masturbation, or whatever. Making any of those things against the law only serves to exacerbate the problem, not solve it, as you continually assert is necessary. I sort of think Vrede is right in that you yourself are addicted to what you've been indoctrinated in for decades. Your admission of being lenient in certain cases is admirable, but your continual refusal to realize that a lot of drugs like crack, meth, syth pot, whatever...would not even exist were it not for the stupid drug laws in this country. On top of that, I thank you for a compliment, and you equate me with another and disparage the both of us. Well, it's about what I expect from a cop....I've never been helped by one and have been fucked with by several. One of them I went to court with and I believe he lost his job over my case but I'm not sure if this; he may have just taken "retirement" a little early. He embarrassed himself and his department trifling with me one day in 09. In any case, it seems you're never going to realize the futility of the war on drugs but it doesn't matter. I just remembered his name.....I momentarily forgot because I'm on drugs....David Allison, former Buncombe County deputy dubmass. ok
Last edited by neoplacebo on Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Vrede too
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Vrede too » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:36 pm

It's part of Leo Lyons addictive disease that he lamely and repeatedly tries to divide us by complimenting someone that's calling him an idiot somewhat politely while whining about my more blunt style. Mr.B was the same way for years and it's never mattered to either of them that it's always failed.
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

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neoplacebo
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by neoplacebo » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:31 am

Yeah, his reply was a crushing and devastating emotional blow to me.....took me right by the shoulders and rattled my brain pan good. It was the kind of thing that would cause me to start using drugs if I hadn't already done that about 50 years ago. :yawn:

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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by neoplacebo » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:44 am

This is something I've thought back on recently......it has to do with illegal drugs and improved urinary function.....I've only eaten "magic mushrooms" a few times but I do remember that while under their influence I was able to piss like crazy......I'm talking about being able to write your name in a gravel driveway, never mind snow......or possibly being able to blast the paint from the surface of a board. I think the medical research community should look into this at once. Thanks.

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Leo Lyons
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Leo Lyons » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:43 pm

neoplacebo wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:44 am
This is something I've thought back on recently......it has to do with illegal drugs and improved urinary function.....I've only eaten "magic mushrooms" a few times but I do remember that while under their influence I was able to piss like crazy......I'm talking about being able to write your name in a gravel driveway, never mind snow......or possibly being able to blast the paint from the surface of a board. I think the medical research community should look into this at once. Thanks.
Vrede's 'way ahead of you. He knows soooo much more about this than as an ER RN.

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Leo Lyons
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Leo Lyons » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:56 pm

Vrede too wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:36 pm
It's part of Leo Lyons addictive disease that he lamely and repeatedly tries to divide us by complimenting someone that's calling him an idiot somewhat politely while whining about my more blunt style. Mr.B was the same way for years and it's never mattered to either of them that it's always failed.
Let's see what 'ol Doc Phil would say:
Glibness and Superficial Charm

"tries to divide us " ---- Grandiose Sense of Self
"whining about my more blunt style" ---- They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible.
"Mr.B was the same way" ---- Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. (Paranoia; still has Mr.B living in his head) :lol: :lol:
Yep, a sure-fire, dyed-in-the-wool sociopath; that's what you are Vrede.
Get help, Mr. ER RN.

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Vrede too
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Vrede too » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:00 pm

Vrede too wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:36 pm
It's part of Leo Lyons addictive disease that he lamely and repeatedly tries to divide us by complimenting someone that's calling him an idiot somewhat politely while whining about my more blunt style. Mr.B was the same way for years and it's never mattered to either of them that it's always failed.
It must be very frustrating to him to no longer be able to plant drugs or otherwise invent crimes when people call him an idiot and a danger to decent society.
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

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Leo Lyons
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Leo Lyons » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:31 pm

Resident Sociopath wrote: Not bothering to open the newest whining, but since a post is visible to me -
"Pathological Lying" trait. Do you really think anyone gives a rat's ass whether or not you read a post? Why do you think it's oh so necessary to make the other's think you don't read posts. You're not fooling anyone with your sociopathic bullshit behavior. :lol:

The sexual exploitation of drug addiction and the unfriendly, opportunistic, destructive dealers, along with much of the "misery, devastation" are creations of Leo Lyons' highly profitable team, not the drugs themselves, and he did nothing to reduce the negatives that drugs do engender.
Like I said, why should I argue with an expert on this subject.

"drug advocates" is the same desperate and dishonest BS that billy.pilgrim called Leo Lyons out on yesterday and Leo Lyons cowered from, as usual.
"desperate and dishonest BS" --- Authoritarian

Leo Lyons continues his career of wussy lies and straw men because he can't face this.
I think I'm hanging in there pretty well; I'm facing your barrage of sociopathic bullshit and watching you melt down with your fancy words and names. Carry on.

Riiiight, because a self-serving prohibition advocate knows soooo much more about this than an ER RN.
Well, you got me there. I don't know much about giving enemas, prostate exams, cleaning shitty sheets and the such, but I happen to be rather knowledgeable about my prior job. You, OTOH have a deep ingrained hatred for laws and officers, especially when it comes to your belief that drug use should be one's personal choice. Well, Mr. all-knowing, extremely knowledgeable ER RN, I don't give two shits about someone's personal choices except when it's illegal and it harms innocent victims and children, which incidentally, you fail to acknowledge that.

Oh look, Leo Lyons cowers and deflect from the point that legalization does NOT increase abuse. Poor baby, maybe there's a drug that will give him a spine.
You're beyond any help, drug or otherwise; sociopaths never change.

Yep, addicts do pursue their fixes, often breaking different laws and hurting others along the way. Leo Lyons has just made the case for legalization, but his brain is too addled from decades of addiction to prohibition to connect with reality. Same thing for his inability to comprehend that most of the designer drugs he's now desperately trying to shift the discussion to have zero customers if less harmful options are available, as neoplacebo accurately says.
"Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities."
Zero customers? :lol: :lol:

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Leo Lyons
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Leo Lyons » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:35 pm

Vrede too wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:00 pm
Vrede too wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:36 pm
It's part of Leo Lyons addictive disease that he lamely and repeatedly tries to divide us by complimenting someone that's calling him an idiot somewhat politely while whining about my more blunt style. Mr.B was the same way for years and it's never mattered to either of them that it's always failed.
It must be very frustrating to him to no longer be able to plant drugs or otherwise invent crimes when people call him an idiot and a danger to decent society.
Grasping for insults? :lol: "Extreme narcissism and grandiose attitude"
You're on a roll, don't stop now!

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Vrede too
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Vrede too » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:52 pm

Point proved, probably.
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

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neoplacebo
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by neoplacebo » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:05 pm

The war on drugs is all bullshit; it started over misconceptions and misinformation to begin with in the case of pot (see Weed the People, a book that describes how the laws about pot came about) and was accelerated by Nixon and his paranoia and "law and order" drivel while he and his buddies were breaking the law themselves.....Elvis gives them a boost in about 71 by visiting the president and becoming an honorary DEA agent and then goes home and gets blasted on alcohol and pills, and later dies on the shitter. This is the tragic story of drugs in America, or at least how some misguided people perceive the story of drugs in America. Elvis and Nixon abused drugs. I don't. To me, abusing drugs would be throwing them away or losing them. I've been in the war on drugs since it started, and I'm on drugs side. ok

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Leo Lyons
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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Leo Lyons » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:31 pm

neoplacebo wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:44 am
This is something I've thought back on recently......it has to do with illegal drugs and improved urinary function.....I've only eaten "magic mushrooms" a few times but I do remember that while under their influence I was able to piss like crazy......I'm talking about being able to write your name in a gravel driveway, never mind snow......or possibly being able to blast the paint from the surface of a board. I think the medical research community should look into this at once. Thanks.
We've discovered that discussing the illegality of drugs improves the urinary function ....
have you ever seen (or heard) of so much pissin' in your life? Pissin' like crazy! :clap: :lol: :clap: :lol: :violent:

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Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:18 pm

neoplacebo wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:05 pm
The war on drugs is all bullshit; it started over misconceptions and misinformation to begin with in the case of pot (see Weed the People, a book that describes how the laws about pot came about) and was accelerated by Nixon and his paranoia and "law and order" drivel while he and his buddies were breaking the law themselves.....Elvis gives them a boost in about 71 by visiting the president and becoming an honorary DEA agent and then goes home and gets blasted on alcohol and pills, and later dies on the shitter. This is the tragic story of drugs in America, or at least how some misguided people perceive the story of drugs in America. Elvis and Nixon abused drugs. I don't. To me, abusing drugs would be throwing them away or losing them. I've been in the war on drugs since it started, and I'm on drugs side. ok

Leo wouldn't be interested in the whys and wherefores. So what if these laws against a harmless plant were created to keep the niggers down, so what there weren't any pot problems before the laws, so what that it's these laws are still destroying black families and have now moved on to poor whites. So what that misinformation and lies fuels votes for the right.

Sorry, I couldn't find a clip of Charlie smoking hemp in the nearly 100 year old Gold Rush, but eating the shoe is especially good when you know that he hated licorice and had to film the scenes ll times.

https://youtu.be/u65lvwfTPtM

Back to Tennessee
I took Bob and Mary Clement and her mom to dinner at Flounder's on Pensacola Beach in 1990. Most, or much of our inebriated conversation was about pot law. He really surprised me by saying that most pols flavored legalization but then fell back on the tired old flip/flop that he knew it would be political suicide and there were more important issues.
Mary and mom were for legalization.
George Carlin said “The owners know the truth. It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

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