Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

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O Really
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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by O Really » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:47 pm

rstrong wrote:
O Really wrote:You had an excellent scenario, Rstrong, except you may have forgotten Heller, that pretty much does away with your argument that "militia" regulated or otherwise, carries much weight.
Actually I was specifically referring to Heller:
rstrong wrote:The U.S. Supreme Court stated that "the adjective 'well-regulated' implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training."
[...]
If they can't limit gun ownership to a "well regulated militia", then they can impose their own definition of "proper discipline and training."
The rest of my point was that such a reinterpretation is minor compared to the constitutional reinterpretations of the last administration, with one of the big ones upheld by this one.
Point taken. And I understand I asked for "theoretical" but there is zero effort by anybody, much less Obama, to even strengthen the training requirements there are now. The "training" required for a concealed carry licence is laughable. No "training" is required to own a gun absent the CC licence. In NC, you're supposed to take a safety course before you go out into the woods shooting your fellow hunters or hikers, but if you've had a hunting licence in another state, the requirement is waived. Even if the other state didn't require any training.

So your theory still remains the best response. BTW, back in the BlueRidge forum, nascar went totally apoplectic when I suggested that I would like to see stronger training requirements for CC's. So the possibility of getting those requirements actually passed - even if theoretically possible, is nil. The former resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, who didn't exist and whose name must not be spoken, had the advantage of a big public sentiment on security following 9/11 and subsequent messes. Totally opposite for sentiment on doing anything gun-related.

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by O Really » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:52 pm

neoplacebo wrote:Isn't it illegal for the mentally handicapped to possess weapons? Has anyone gone to disarm the former sheriff?
The NC requirements for a CC licence include "does not suffer from a physical or mental infirmity that prevents the safe handling of a handgun" but I'm pretty sure if you don't walk in wearing the remains of your straitjacket and drooling through your Hannibal Lector mask that FL will give you a licence. And if they do, it's good in NC.

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by rstrong » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:13 pm

A minor adjustment to my scenerio:

Democrats take a strong pro-NRA stance. Declare that gun ownership is an important part of American citizenship, an important defence against the tyranny of the government and the establishment of a ruling class.

Then they begin a campaign to encourage and assist gun ownership by blacks, hispanics, and any minority that has ever feared the tyranny of a ruling class.
:D

The next Republican administration then takes away everyone's guns. They use the method I outline above. The NRA, now making a fortune providing that training, backs them all the way.

And so the pro-gun-control crowd gets their gun control. The Republicans remain the party of "responsible" gun ownership, with a monopoly on deciding who is "responsible". The NRA makes a fortune. Everyone (that counts) is happy.

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:16 pm

rstrong wrote:A minor adjustment to my scenerio:

Democrats take a strong pro-NRA stance. Declare that gun ownership is an important part of being an American citizenship, an important defence against the tyranny of the government and the establishment of a ruling class.

Then they begin a campaign to encourage and assist gun ownership by blacks, hispanics, and any minority that has ever feared the tyranny of a ruling class.
:D

The next Republican administration then takes away everyone's guns. They use the method I outline above. The NRA, now making a fortune providing that training, backs them all the way.

And so the pro-gun-control crowd gets their gun control. The Republicans remain the party of "responsible" gun ownership, with a monopoly on deciding who is "responsible". The NRA makes a fortune. Everyone is happy.

I think you just hit the kernel's head on the nail
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George Carlin said “The owners know the truth. It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

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O Really
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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by O Really » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:30 pm

rstrong wrote:A minor adjustment to my scenerio:

Democrats take a strong pro-NRA stance. Declare that gun ownership is an important part of American citizenship, an important defence against the tyranny of the government and the establishment of a ruling class.

Then they begin a campaign to encourage and assist gun ownership by blacks, hispanics, and any minority that has ever feared the tyranny of a ruling class.
:D

The next Republican administration then takes away everyone's guns. They use the method I outline above. The NRA, now making a fortune providing that training, backs them all the way.

And so the pro-gun-control crowd gets their gun control. The Republicans remain the party of "responsible" gun ownership, with a monopoly on deciding who is "responsible". The NRA makes a fortune. Everyone (that counts) is happy.
:-||
What could be more terrifying to Republicans than having the groups they've shunned and tried to disenfranchise to be well-armed?

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:38 pm

O Really wrote:
neoplacebo wrote:Isn't it illegal for the mentally handicapped to possess weapons? Has anyone gone to disarm the former sheriff?
The NC requirements for a CC licence include "does not suffer from a physical or mental infirmity that prevents the safe handling of a handgun" but I'm pretty sure if you don't walk in wearing the remains of your straitjacket and drooling through your Hannibal Lector mask that FL will give you a licence. And if they do, it's good in NC.
and we also legalized shooting anyone who causes you to "feel" threatened - I haven't seen it used yet against drivers you cut you off in traffic, but who knows, take out 10 or 15 aggressive drivers and things will slow down

on the other foot, everyone may carry and defensive drivers would have to incorporate gun turrets
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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by rstrong » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:41 pm

Vrede wrote:Hey ;) , I was here first:
So noted!

The money is the key. Note how the intellectual property lobby is able get the government to stomp all over personal rights - not just in America, but by getting their demands written into treaties with other countries. There's a lot of money involved.

My revised scenario not only uses a monetary barrier as one of several barriers to gun ownership, but it sends a great deal of money to the NRA and friends for that training plan. With THAT in place, the scenerio becomes much more credible. The Democrats, Republicans and the NRA all have an incentive to adopt it.
Last edited by rstrong on Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by O Really » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:45 pm

billy.pilgrim wrote:
O Really wrote:
neoplacebo wrote:Isn't it illegal for the mentally handicapped to possess weapons? Has anyone gone to disarm the former sheriff?
The NC requirements for a CC licence include "does not suffer from a physical or mental infirmity that prevents the safe handling of a handgun" but I'm pretty sure if you don't walk in wearing the remains of your straitjacket and drooling through your Hannibal Lector mask that FL will give you a licence. And if they do, it's good in NC.
and we also legalized shooting anyone who causes you to "feel" threatened - I haven't seen it used yet against drivers you cut you off in traffic, but who knows, take out 10 or 15 aggressive drivers and things will slow down

on the other foot, everyone may carry and defensive drivers would have to incorporate gun turrets
Here's some pretty close to that...part of defense would have been some version of feeling threatened, "he had a gun, too" yada...

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/loca ... ally-Fired

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012 ... e-incident

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012 ... e-shooting

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:18 pm

O Really wrote:
billy.pilgrim wrote:
O Really wrote:
neoplacebo wrote:Isn't it illegal for the mentally handicapped to possess weapons? Has anyone gone to disarm the former sheriff?
The NC requirements for a CC licence include "does not suffer from a physical or mental infirmity that prevents the safe handling of a handgun" but I'm pretty sure if you don't walk in wearing the remains of your straitjacket and drooling through your Hannibal Lector mask that FL will give you a licence. And if they do, it's good in NC.
and we also legalized shooting anyone who causes you to "feel" threatened - I haven't seen it used yet against drivers you cut you off in traffic, but who knows, take out 10 or 15 aggressive drivers and things will slow down

on the other foot, everyone may carry and defensive drivers would have to incorporate gun turrets
Here's some pretty close to that...part of defense would have been some version of feeling threatened, "he had a gun, too" yada...

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/loca ... ally-Fired

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012 ... e-incident

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012 ... e-shooting

yeah, throwing away the 2,000 year evolution of the the self-defense law for the sake of pandering to a bunch of teabaggers made a lot of sense
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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by neoplacebo » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:21 pm

Vrede wrote:
O Really wrote:
neoplacebo wrote:Isn't it illegal for the mentally handicapped to possess weapons? Has anyone gone to disarm the former sheriff?
The NC requirements for a CC licence include "does not suffer from a physical or mental infirmity that prevents the safe handling of a handgun" but I'm pretty sure if you don't walk in wearing the remains of your straitjacket and drooling through your Hannibal Lector mask that FL will give you a licence. And if they do, it's good in NC.
My understanding is that "mental infirmity" is defined only by commitment or court determination. The former sheriff's self-description is not sufficient.
Even with his state certified genuwine disability?

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by Wneglia » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:36 pm

O Really wrote:
neoplacebo wrote:Isn't it illegal for the mentally handicapped to possess weapons? Has anyone gone to disarm the former sheriff?
The NC requirements for a CC licence include "does not suffer from a physical or mental infirmity that prevents the safe handling of a handgun" but I'm pretty sure if you don't walk in wearing the remains of your straitjacket and drooling through your Hannibal Lector mask that FL will give you a licence. And if they do, it's good in NC.
I was surprised to learn that North Carolina is an "open carry" state that does not require a CC licence as long as it is not concealed, and in open view. Seems like that is just asking for problems and harassment from LEO's.

:mrgreen:

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by Colonel Taylor » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:46 pm

Since hunting season started I have been open carrying everywhere and not one word. Also the x sheriff should have turned his weapon in! From 20 feet up this is getting hairy. :o
Last edited by Colonel Taylor on Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by O Really » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:46 pm

Wneglia wrote: I was surprised to learn that North Carolina is an "open carry" state that does not require a CC licence as long as it is not concealed, and in open view. Seems like that is just asking for problems and harassment from LEO's.

:mrgreen:
It is indeed asking for problems and harassment. Somebody is going to report that "there's a guy with a gun in the WalMart parking lot" and then all amock rains down. Even with the right to have it, and getting out of the "discussion" with no charge, it's not a fun way to spend an hour. Then there's the "going armed to the terror..." deal, that I've actually seen charged recently. And of course, if your jacket happens to be covering your "open" holster and you don't have your CC, then that's an entirely different issue.

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by Wneglia » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:51 pm

Vrede wrote:
Wneglia wrote:I was surprised to learn that North Carolina is an "open carry" state that does not require a CC licence as long as it is not concealed, and in open view...
Most or all states are, hence the "concealed" in "concealed carry" permit.
While there are many exceptions, SC in general, is not as liberal as NC in allowing open carry

:mrgreen:

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by Stinger » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:12 pm

Vrede wrote: "Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!" is just a marketing ploy by the NRA and guns/ammo sellers, they understand the gullibility of their clients.
The NRA has moved from a gun association into a political entity. The "Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!" is absolutely a scare tactic to bring in more money to justify Wayne LaPierre's million-dollar salary.

Secondarily, it's to bring as many votes as possible to the Republicans.

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by Stinger » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:18 pm

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Stinger wrote:Well, without the Muslim mind meld, I just can't come up with a way.

Did anyone else here ever deal with a wingnut so dumb that they claimed Obama used hypnotic methods in his speech? I dealt with a couple. They even had a crackpot source that they believed like it was the Bible, Vol. II. You can't blame the foolers on that one. It's the foolee's fault.

oh shit! I just put - Obama used hypnotic methods in his speech - into the google

these idiots - how do people get so stupid?
I think they work at it. First, you just start out being willfully ignorant and move to extreme gullibility. Then you just go around the bend and off the deep end.

I actually encountered a couple of those loons on one of the old newspaper forums. One was a JUST BELIEVE Birfer. The more of her evidence you debunked, the stronger her belief.

They apparently see no reason to make the slightest effort to distinguish between reality and whatever pops into their mind that sounds good. If they JUST BELIEVE, it must be true.

Kind of like Butt Ugly and Def. Colon.

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by Reality » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:33 pm

First name Dingle, I beleive you just described yourself and all the other lefties that have a single axis head nod; kinda like yes, yes, yes, for everything Obammy and the left leaning members of his administration come up with...... and all this time I thought you hung around the flight line wash rack.

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by O Really » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:42 pm

Vrede wrote:
Wneglia wrote:
Vrede wrote:
Wneglia wrote:I was surprised to learn that North Carolina is an "open carry" state that does not require a CC licence as long as it is not concealed, and in open view...
Most or all states are, hence the "concealed" in "concealed carry" permit.
While there are many exceptions, SC in general, is not as liberal as NC in allowing open carry
Intersting, especially for a con state, thanks. I thought the legality of "open carry" was the rule most everywhere.
Interesting too that SC doesn't recognize a non-resident FL licence, even though a majority of states do. I would think they'd be more like Vermont.

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by Stinger » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:46 pm

Reality wrote:First name Dingle, I beleive you just described yourself and all the other lefties that have a single axis head nod; kinda like yes, yes, yes, for everything Obammy and the left leaning members of his administration come up with...... and all this time I thought you hung around the flight line wash rack.
We were discussing people who are actually dumb enough to fall for some crackpot nonsense that Obama uses hypnotic methods when he speaks that influences people's subconscious minds, etc. Not surprised that you failed to grasp that.

That's who we were describing -- people who are that dumb and gullible. You know. Your intellectual superiors.

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Re: Obama's Gonna Take Our Guns!

Unread post by Reality » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:56 pm

You fall for Obama's hynotic nonsense. Where does that put you?

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