The Global Warming thread.

Generally an unmoderated forum for discussion of pretty much any topic. The focus however, is usually politics.
Post Reply
User avatar
O Really
Vice admiral
Posts: 13056
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by O Really »

Yeah like that's ever going to happen while there's many repugs around. But on our wind farm tour we did find it somewhat good news that while the steel tariff is making their work more expensive, and while Trumpers are not actively supporting wind energy with the tax deductions as before, that none of that is having a major effect on slowing growth of the industry.

But the other thing is that as long as the regular power companies control the use and distribution of the wind or solar energy, the consumers may or may not receive much individual value. Turns out, power generated by wind is fed into "the grid" and distributed by, for example, PG&E. If PG&E gets wind or solar power that is less expensive than their traditional sources, they may or may not reflect that savings to consumers. Probably "may not" if you look at current practice. California has some of the largest wind and solar farms in the country and among the highest electric rates. But it would be cleaner, at least.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26185
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by Vrede too »

O Really wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:49 pm
Yeah like that's ever going to happen while there's many repugs around. But on our wind farm tour we did find it somewhat good news that while the steel tariff is making their work more expensive, and while Trumpers are not actively supporting wind energy with the tax deductions as before, that none of that is having a major effect on slowing growth of the industry.
I'll disagree with you as to the possibilities. Existing clean energy incentives have passed with bipartisan support, and central US states are raking in the dough from wind energy. Isn't Texas the #1 producer? One thing that suppresses Repug dogma is greed.
But the other thing is that as long as the regular power companies control the use and distribution of the wind or solar energy, the consumers may or may not receive much individual value. Turns out, power generated by wind is fed into "the grid" and distributed by, for example, PG&E. If PG&E gets wind or solar power that is less expensive than their traditional sources, they may or may not reflect that savings to consumers. Probably "may not" if you look at current practice. California has some of the largest wind and solar farms in the country and among the highest electric rates. But it would be cleaner, at least.
True, those that can are going with rooftop solar or even wind on their own land.

Idk what the deal is with California, but its energy system has been fucked up at least since Enron. Its nukes are still being paid for, too. In theory, PSC regulators can limit exorbitant profits for utilities.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
1 CAT FAN
Ensign
Posts: 1774
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:07 pm

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by 1 CAT FAN »

Protect Eagles from Wind Turbine Fatalities – American Eagle
https://www.eagles.org/take-action/wind ... atalities/
Vrede too wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:56 pm
Tell Congress to Reverse Trump’s Assault on Endangered Wildlife!
Vrede too wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:27 pm
Donald Trump Jr. shouldn't get a pass for killing protected species

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26185
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by Vrede too »

GoCubsGo wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:16 pm
Bravo 👏👏👏👏
Plus, it has the added benefit of driving the Wingnuts crazy!!
Point proven.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
O Really
Vice admiral
Posts: 13056
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by O Really »

Vrede too wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:02 pm

Idk what the deal is with California, but its energy system has been fucked up at least since Enron.
Funny you should mention Enron. They had a scheme going in Palm Springs to try to take over the city power. They also owned one of the wind farms, under the name "Green Power." The city power takeover didn't work, and when they went down in flames Florida Power and Light bought their Green Power operation. The large marblish Green Power sign is still there marking their operation, but the place in the lower right corner where it used to say "Enron" has been scratched out. Not resurfaced; not covered with a plaque; not filled in. Scratched out with what looks like a guy with no clue as to how to use a power drill or chisel.

Image

User avatar
Ulysses
Commander
Posts: 3050
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:57 pm
Location: I Get Around

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by Ulysses »

O Really wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:48 pm
Vrede too wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:02 pm

Idk what the deal is with California, but its energy system has been fucked up at least since Enron.
Funny you should mention Enron. They had a scheme going in Palm Springs to try to take over the city power. They also owned one of the wind farms, under the name "Green Power." The city power takeover didn't work, and when they went down in flames Florida Power and Light bought their Green Power operation. The large marblish Green Power sign is still there marking their operation, but the place in the lower right corner where it used to say "Enron" has been scratched out. Not resurfaced; not covered with a plaque; not filled in. Scratched out with what looks like a guy with no clue as to how to use a power drill or chisel.

Image
Isn't Palm Springs in California? What would Florida Power and light company have to do with a California operation?
Buh-Bye, President Plump...

User avatar
O Really
Vice admiral
Posts: 13056
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by O Really »

FP&L created NextEra, a holding company for a variety of power utilities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NextEra_Energy
But ownership of the various parts of the big wind farms around Palm Springs isn't limited to California companies. There are even some foreign companies that own some of them, including one from Norway. The guide on our tour had a joke about tourists who are distressed that Norwegians come to America and take our electricity, and they want to know how they get it back to Norway. The guide tells them the Norwegians only take their profits back to Norway, not the electricity itself. :lol:

User avatar
1 CAT FAN
Ensign
Posts: 1774
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:07 pm

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by 1 CAT FAN »

Image

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26185
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by Vrede too »

O Really wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:48 pm
Funny you should mention Enron. They had a scheme going in Palm Springs to try to take over the city power. They also owned one of the wind farms, under the name "Green Power." The city power takeover didn't work, and when they went down in flames Florida Power and Light bought their Green Power operation. The large marblish Green Power sign is still there marking their operation, but the place in the lower right corner where it used to say "Enron" has been scratched out. Not resurfaced; not covered with a plaque; not filled in. Scratched out with what looks like a guy with no clue as to how to use a power drill or chisel.
That doesn't speak highly for Florida Power and Light, but it's kinda perfect for Enron.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26185
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by Vrede too »

Ulysses wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:09 pm
Isn't Palm Springs in California? What would Florida Power and light company have to do with a California operation?
Florida Man does missionary work.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
Ulysses
Commander
Posts: 3050
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:57 pm
Location: I Get Around

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by Ulysses »

Vrede too wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:37 pm
Ulysses wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:09 pm
Isn't Palm Springs in California? What would Florida Power and light company have to do with a California operation?
Florida Man does missionary work.
Who dat?
Buh-Bye, President Plump...

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26185
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by Vrede too »

Ulysses wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:39 pm
Vrede too wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:37 pm
Florida Man does missionary work.
Who dat?
http://www.blueridgedebate.com/forum/vi ... f=3&t=2458


Greenland’s Ice Sheet Is Melting at Rate That Surpasses Scientists' Expectations, Study Shows

Ut-oh.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26185
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by Vrede too »

"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26185
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by Vrede too »

Thunderstorm in mid-Dec? Weird.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
billy.pilgrim
Rear admiral
Posts: 8779
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

Vrede too wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:24 am
Thunderstorm in mid-Dec? Weird.
Not so sure about December, or the Carolinas, but my grandmother (she was 3rd generation of farmers in Middle Tennessee) told me after a thunderstorm, one January in the late 70s, that it would snow in May; it did.

User avatar
neoplacebo
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 6098
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Kingsport TN

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by neoplacebo »

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:37 pm
Vrede too wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:24 am
Thunderstorm in mid-Dec? Weird.
Not so sure about December, or the Carolinas, but my grandmother (she was 3rd generation of farmers in Middle Tennessee) told me after a thunderstorm, one January in the late 70s, that it would snow in May; it did.
My daughter was born April 17, 1983 here in Kingsport TN. It snowed that day.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26185
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by Vrede too »

A Methane Leak, Seen From Space, Proves to Be Far Larger Than Thought

The first satellite designed to continuously monitor the planet for methane leaks made a startling discovery last year: A little known gas-well accident at an Ohio fracking site was in fact one of the largest methane leaks ever recorded in the United States.

The findings by a Dutch-American team of scientists, published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, mark a step forward in using space technology to detect leaks of methane, a potent greenhouse gas that contributes to global warming, from oil and gas sites worldwide.

The scientists said the new findings reinforced the view that methane releases like these, which are difficult to predict, could be far more widespread than previously thought....

When burned for electricity, natural gas is cleaner than coal, producing about half the carbon dioxide that coal does. But if methane escapes into the atmosphere before being burned, it can warm the planet more than 80 times as much as the same amount of carbon dioxide over a 20-year period.

The satellite’s measurements showed that, in Ohio in the 20 days it took for Exxon to plug the well, about 120 metric tons of methane an hour were released. That amounted to twice the rate of the largest known methane leak in the United States, from an oil and gas storage facility in Aliso Canyon, Calif., in 2015, though that event lasted longer and had higher emissions overall.

The Ohio blowout released more methane than the reported emissions of the oil and gas industries of countries like Norway and France, the researchers estimated. Scientists said the measurements from the Ohio site could mean that other large leaks are going undetected.

“When I started working on methane, now about a decade ago, the standard line was: ‘We’ve got it under control. We’re managing it,’ ” Hamburg said. “But in fact, they didn’t have the data. They didn’t have it under control, because they didn’t understand what was actually happening. And you can’t manage what you don’t measure.”

... Still, satellites will increasingly be able to both rapidly detect large releases and shed light on the rise in methane levels in the atmosphere, which has been particularly pronounced since 2007 for reasons that still aren’t fully understood. Fracking natural-gas production, which accelerated just as atmospheric methane levels jumped, has been studied as one possible cause.

“Right now, you have one-off reports, but we have no estimate globally of how frequently these things happen,” Hamburg of the Environmental Defense Fund said. “Is this a once a year kind of event? Once a week? Once a day? Knowing that will make a big difference in trying to fully understand what the aggregate emissions are from oil and gas.”
:cry:

Wait, Big Oil has been lying to us about how benign natural gas production is? I'm shocked.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26185
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by Vrede too »

Even before factoring in these occult methane leaks:
Move over, coal: Gas now emits more CO2 in U.S.

Greenhouse gas emissions from natural gas use now exceed coal emissions in the United States and Europe. And while coal and oil still emit more globally, gas is now the primary driver of emissions growth worldwide.

Those findings, reported last week in a study by the Global Carbon Project, add more fuel to an already smoldering debate about the role of natural gas in a carbon-constrained world. They also raise questions about its ability to serve as a "bridge fuel." ...
More on methane, frightening facts and video:
It’s a Vast, Invisible Climate Menace. We Made It Visible.

To the naked eye, there is nothing out of the ordinary at the DCP Pegasus gas processing plant in West Texas, one of the thousands of installations in the vast Permian Basin that have transformed America into the largest oil and gas producer in the world.

But a highly specialized camera sees what the human eye cannot: a major release of methane, the main component of natural gas and a potent greenhouse gas that is helping to warm the planet at an alarming rate.

Two New York Times journalists detected this from a tiny plane, crammed with scientific equipment, circling above the oil and gas sites that dot the Permian, an oil field bigger than Kansas. In just a few hours, the plane’s instruments identified six sites with unusually high methane emissions.

Methane is loosely regulated, difficult to detect and rising sharply. The Times’s aerial and on-the-ground research, along with an examination of lobbying activities by the companies that own the sites, shows how the energy industry is seeking and winning looser federal regulations on methane, a major contributor to global warming.

Operators of the sites identified by The Times are among the very companies that have lobbied the Trump administration, either directly or through trade organizations, to weaken regulations on methane, a review of regulatory filings, meeting minutes and attendance logs shows. These local companies, along with oil-industry lobby groups that represent the world’s largest energy companies, are fighting rules that would force them to more aggressively fix emissions like these.

Next year, the administration could move forward with a plan that would effectively eliminate requirements that oil companies install technology to detect and fix methane leaks from oil and gas facilities. By the E.P.A.’s own calculations, the rollback would increase methane emissions by 370,000 tons through 2025, enough to power more than a million homes for a year....
:obscene-birdiered:
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26185
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by Vrede too »

Image

https://www.amazon.com/All-Hell-Breakin ... ref=sr_1_1

All Hell Breaking Loose is an eye-opening examination of climate change from the perspective of the U.S. military.

The Pentagon, unsentimental and politically conservative, might not seem likely to be worried about climate change―still linked, for many people, with polar bears and coral reefs. Yet of all the major institutions in American society, none take climate change as seriously as the U.S. military. Both as participants in climate-triggered conflicts abroad, and as first responders to hurricanes and other disasters on American soil, the armed services are already confronting the impacts of global warming. The military now regards climate change as one of the top threats to American national security―and is busy developing strategies to cope with it.

Drawing on previously obscure reports and government documents, renowned security expert Michael Klare shows that the U.S. military sees the climate threat as imperiling the country on several fronts at once. Droughts and food shortages are stoking conflicts in ethnically divided nations, with “climate refugees” producing worldwide havoc. Pandemics and other humanitarian disasters will increasingly require extensive military involvement. The melting Arctic is creating new seaways to defend. And rising seas threaten American cities and military bases themselves.

While others still debate the causes of global warming, the Pentagon is intensely focused on its effects. Its response makes it clear that where it counts, the immense impact of climate change is not in doubt.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
billy.pilgrim
Rear admiral
Posts: 8779
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: The Global Warming thread.

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

Vrede too wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:48 pm
Image

https://www.amazon.com/All-Hell-Breakin ... ref=sr_1_1

All Hell Breaking Loose is an eye-opening examination of climate change from the perspective of the U.S. military.

The Pentagon, unsentimental and politically conservative, might not seem likely to be worried about climate change―still linked, for many people, with polar bears and coral reefs. Yet of all the major institutions in American society, none take climate change as seriously as the U.S. military. Both as participants in climate-triggered conflicts abroad, and as first responders to hurricanes and other disasters on American soil, the armed services are already confronting the impacts of global warming. The military now regards climate change as one of the top threats to American national security―and is busy developing strategies to cope with it.

Drawing on previously obscure reports and government documents, renowned security expert Michael Klare shows that the U.S. military sees the climate threat as imperiling the country on several fronts at once. Droughts and food shortages are stoking conflicts in ethnically divided nations, with “climate refugees” producing worldwide havoc. Pandemics and other humanitarian disasters will increasingly require extensive military involvement. The melting Arctic is creating new seaways to defend. And rising seas threaten American cities and military bases themselves.

While others still debate the causes of global warming, the Pentagon is intensely focused on its effects. Its response makes it clear that where it counts, the immense impact of climate change is not in doubt.

ExxonMobil obviously neglected to work on the military.

Post Reply