Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

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billy.pilgrim
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Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

The author appears to have proved himself wrong about the origins of peanut gallery.

Words are not prescriptive to language. definitions change over time and location. It wasn't many years ago that happy children were called gay and queer was an insult. One changed over time and the other was cooped by the people the word had been used to insult.

Boomers were proud of the name 50 years ago, but now it's used to refer to someone as being behind.

Fuzzy wuzzy is a silly rhythm you teach kids. When they get older and ask for meaning, show them Kipling's people about the bravery of the Beja troops against the British forces.

We give words their meaning. Wooly Bully

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neoplacebo
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Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by neoplacebo »

Vrede too wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:32 pm
I merely posted the article. You can reject its assertions and modern implications if you choose. I'm no historian, grammarian nor minority (including Irish heritage).
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:35 pm
While there may be heartfelt memories when hearing the term a bridge too far, you you really think that anyone finds the term to be offensive?

As for Fuzzy, I wonder if anyone thinks this:
The term "Fuzzy Wuzzy" was originally used by British troops to describe the Beja warriors who supported the Mahdi in the Mahdist War of the late 19th century. The term was used due to the hairstyle of the troops and the bear term was added as a pun on the Beja tribe's name. This nickname was then used in a poem created by Rudyard Kipling as a sign of respect and admiration for the Beja troops who fought against the British and became a facet of popular culture from that time until the present day.
My mention of Operation Market Garden is a joke, hence the " ;) ". I doubt that neoplacebo is offended.

The article says:
Fuzzy wuzzy

This is a late 1800’s term used by British colonial soldiers to refer to the members of an East African tribe. It became a derogatory way to refer to natural hair texture of non-white people throughout Africa, Cedric Burrows, author of "Rhetorical Crossover: The Black Rhetorical Presence in White Culture" told ABC News....
Whatever the Beja and Mahdi called the British troops and other Whites does not persist.

Fwiw, the Mahdist War lasted eighteen years, resulted in massive African casualties vs minimal British ones, and ended with UK domination of Sudan for over half a century.
Nah, I recognized your comment as a humorous one. No offense taken here. Hell, I'm just saying that if we try to change everything that MAY have some sort of vestigal tie to a racist attitude from the past, we'll have to change a lot of shit.....everything from buy bull verses to Uncle Ben's rice. They've already addressed Uncle Ben I believe but I somehow doubt they're going to change the buy bull.

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Vrede too
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Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by Vrede too »

neoplacebo wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:57 am
Nah, I recognized your comment as a humorous one. No offense taken here. Hell, I'm just saying that if we try to change everything that MAY have some sort of vestigal tie to a racist attitude from the past, we'll have to change a lot of shit.....everything from buy bull verses to Uncle Ben's rice. They've already addressed Uncle Ben I believe but I somehow doubt they're going to change the buy bull.
They've constantly changed the buy bull - both new translations and language modernization. Then, interpretations of it routinely shift to reflect modern aspirations and prejudices.

Society and its lexicon evolve. Phrases with sketchy origins can fall out of use just as easily as they were unwittingly adopted. For example, I almost never hear or see "paddy wagon" anymore other than in old movies. Remember this death that led to so much rioting?

Freddie Grey Arrest: Baltimore Van Ride at Center of Mystery
The Baltimore police are investigating how and when Grey injured his spine.


The reference was almost always to "police van" as in this article, or to 'prisoner transport van/bus' elsewhere.

I'll bet that "peanut gallery" dies out, too, once all of the Howdy Doody viewers are gone.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

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billy.pilgrim
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Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

I thought that peanut gallery was pre-Howdy, like way before. I've always understood it to mean unwelcome noise, or children complaining about a decision that a parent or teacher made.

The balcony was built for blacks. I would imagine that unwanted noise from there would not have been tolerated.

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neoplacebo
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Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by neoplacebo »

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:44 am
I thought that peanut gallery was pre-Howdy, like way before. I've always understood it to mean unwelcome noise, or children complaining about a decision that a parent or teacher made.

The balcony was built for blacks. I would imagine that unwanted noise from there would not have been tolerated.
I always thought "peanut gallery" just referred to the cheap seats, which would typically be occupied by "cheap" or less than "respectable" people. Don't know why I thought this, but I did.

As for the blacks in the balcony, when I was a kid growing up here in TN there were two movie theaters downtown; the State and the Strand. One had a separate outside stairway to the balcony for blacks; the other had an inside staircase to the balcony. I do not remember ever seeing a black person at the concession stand getting popcorn or drinks and do not know if they had a separate facility for this in the balcony or not. I do remember being curious about the balcony and wishing I could go sit there.

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Vrede too
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Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by Vrede too »

I took it to refer to goofy and/or irrelevant people. There was no official segregation in the DC area by the time I was old enough to have noticed, but de facto segregation of course persisted.
Vrede too wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:38 am
Here are some commonly used terms that actually have racist origins

Peanut gallery

According to linguistics experts, the origin of this phrase derives from the late 1800’s Vaudeville era, a popular style of entertainment that included jugglers, comedians, singers etc... The "peanut gallery" was the cheapest section of seats usually occupied by people with limited means.

The 1940s and 1950s-era children's program "Howdy Doody" used the term to refer to the groups of kids who participated in its audience.

Image
PHOTO: Howdy Doody, Bob Smith as Buffalo Bob Smith entertains the 'Peanut Gallery' on an episode of 'Howdy Doody.'

However, in the segregated South, seats in the back and/or upper balcony levels were mostly reserved for Black people, according to author Stuart Berg Flexner, an expert on the origins of American phrases. In his book, "Listening to America: An Illustrated History of Words and Phrases From Our Lively and Splendid Past," he writes that “Peanut gallery was in use in the 1880s, as a synonym for n----- gallery (1840s) or n----- heaven (1870s), the upper balcony where blacks sat, as in segregated theaters.”
I think Howdy Doody popularized it for our generation and the one prior, but it's my guess that it won't last.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

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O Really
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Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by O Really »

While we're at it, we better not talk about "slaving in the yard all afternoon"
And drop The Pretenders "Chain Gang" from the play list since most people actually put on a chain gang were Black.
Change the name on "Raid" bug spray because the commercials "..RAID!!" is frightening to immigrants of colour.
Can a white guy be a blues singer without being guilty of cultural appropriation?
And shouldn't Steve Martin be excoriated for "The Jerk", playing in a gag-laden comedy about an idiotic white man, raised by a poor family of black sharecroppers, who doesn't realize he's not black.

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Whack9
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Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by Whack9 »

Can a new baby born still be named Karen?

🤔
Fuck 2019 2020

Ezekiel 23:20

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Vrede too
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Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by Vrede too »

Whack9 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:12 pm
Can a new baby born still be named Karen?

🤔
:D Think of all the unfortunate boys that have been named Donald.

BLM has gone universal:

Nasa to change 'harmful' and 'insensitive' planet and galaxy nicknames

Eskimo Nebula
Siamese Twins Galaxy

No word on Uranus yet.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

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