Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Generally an unmoderated forum for discussion of pretty much any topic. The focus however, is usually politics.
Post Reply
User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26260
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by Vrede too »

Except for the years when the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts were passed I think 2020 is the worst year for racists since 1865.

Granted, we had a Russian and Comey assisted hiccup in 2016, but still perhaps a good time to recall this essay from 2010:

An Open Letter to the White Right, On the Occasion of Your Recent, Successful Temper Tantrum

Tick, tock.

Tick, tock.

Tick.

Tock.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26260
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by Vrede too »

"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
Ulysses
Commander
Posts: 3053
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:57 pm
Location: I Get Around

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by Ulysses »

Whack9 wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:59 am
GoCubsGo wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:38 pm
I really don't know what to make of this.

Steven Miller keeps going from having no hair to having (fake) hair. When he consumes the blood of innocent immigrant children his hair game increases, maybe .
His final exit from the WH next January will be the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
Buh-Bye, President Plump...

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26260
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by Vrede too »

Trump was furious after Defense Secretary Esper effectively barred the Confederate flag from military bases

... Trump has previously defended the flag. In an interview with CBS News earlier this month, Trump said: "Well, people love it, and I don't view — I know people that like the Confederate flag and they're not thinking about slavery."

Business Insider highlighted that: "Confederate leaders explicitly laid out in their constitution that the main goal of the Confederacy was to preserve slavery."

... It's also not the first time Trump and Esper were at odds. In June, The Wall Street Journal reported that Trump was mad and almost firest Esper, when the defense secretary publically disagreed with his suggestion to send troops to quell protests.
The White House just accidentally made a strong case to rename the military's Confederate-themed bases

... "The bases are not known for the generals — the bases are known for the heroes within it," McEnany added. "The great Americans: Black, white, Hispanic, and every race who have died on behalf of this great country."

... But McEnany's defense of the Confederate namesakes on Friday inadvertently made a point for new names in remembrance of "great Americans."

... A bipartisan movement has mounted to rename the bases after Medal of Honor recipients like US Army Master Sgt. Roy Benavidez, a Green Beret who took part in "six hours of hell" in the Vietnam War.

In 1968, Benavidez sustained over two dozen gunshot, bayonet, and shrapnel wounds after volunteering for a mission to rescue 12 soldiers.

Benavidez was pronounced dead by the time he arrived back to his base in South Vietnam. After he was placed in a body bag, he signaled he was still alive by spitting at a doctor's face.

Thirteen years later, Benavidez was awarded the Medal of Honor for "fearless personal leadership, tenacious devotion to duty, and extremely valorous actions in the face of overwhelming odds were in keeping with the highest traditions of the military service, and reflect the utmost credit on him and the United States Army."

Benavidez died in 1998.

Calls to rename Fort Hood in Texas — the largest active-duty armored post that honors Confederate Gen. John Hood — in honor of Benavidez, a Texas native of Mexican descent, have grown in light of the military's recent ban on Confederate flags and the growth of the Black Lives Matter movement. The names of other military veterans, including women and Black service members, have also been floated by advocates as prudent replacements to the Confederate leaders who fought to preserve the enslavement of Black Americans.

"Do we continue to honor a Texan of convenience who fought ineptly against the United States government in defense of slavery, or choose instead to bestow those garlands on a native-born son," an opinion column published in the Texas Monthly said....
The Worst Civil War Generals and Commanders

Confederate Lt. Gen. John Bell Hood. In mid-July 1864, Confederate President Jefferson Davis replaced Army of Tennessee commander Joseph Johnston with John Bell Hood. Hood was an aggressive general who liked to attack no matter what the odds. He proceeded over the next several months to wreck the Army of Tennessee at Atlanta, Franklin, and Nashville.
10 Much Better Names for the Army Bases Honoring Confederate Generals
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26260
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by Vrede too »

Portland:

Image
Denica Coombs, 37, holds a sign she said was intended to remind federal agents that since there's been no move for police reform, the public remains unwilling to stop protesting.

:-||
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
O Really
Vice admiral
Posts: 13082
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by O Really »

Slaver flag and civil war history from the standpoint of an Aussie...

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboo ... age-165621
They claim the battle flag represents their Southern heritage, as if that heritage comprises an innocent history of mint juleps and church-going. The problem with that claim, as the history of the use of the flag demonstrates, is that the heritage it symbolises is also that of enslavement, inequality, violence and gross injustice.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26260
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by Vrede too »

O Really wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:09 am
Slaver flag and civil war history from the standpoint of an Aussie...

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboo ... age-165621
They claim the battle flag represents their Southern heritage, as if that heritage comprises an innocent history of mint juleps and church-going. The problem with that claim, as the history of the use of the flag demonstrates, is that the heritage it symbolises is also that of enslavement, inequality, violence and gross injustice.
The Confederate Flag Is Pure Racism (Not Southern Heritage)

Wow, that's not the norm for the right-wing, so called "National Interest".
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire


User avatar
GoCubsGo
Commander
Posts: 3586
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:22 am

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by GoCubsGo »

Gaslighting time.

Eamus Catuli~AC 000000 000101 010202 020303

User avatar
GoCubsGo
Commander
Posts: 3586
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:22 am

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by GoCubsGo »

Arkansas.

Eamus Catuli~AC 000000 000101 010202 020303

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26260
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by Vrede too »

GoCubsGo wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:04 am
Arkansas.
Disgusting.

Here are some commonly used terms that actually have racist origins

... Open the kimono ...

Fuzzy wuzzy ...

Plantation (shutter, blinds, style weddings, etc...) ...

Off the reservation ...

Eskimo ...

Peanut gallery ...

Paddy Wagon ...

(sit) Indian style ...

Mumbo jumbo ...
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
O Really
Vice admiral
Posts: 13082
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by O Really »

Commonly used terms that (may have) racist origins.
Still others, such as “peanut gallery” and “fuzzy wuzzy," remain in wide use despite their racially questionable origins.That's because the definition of these words and phrases have often been lost over time, experts said.
If few or anybody know the original racist definition, then what possible difference does it make now?

From my childhood, many decades ago:
"Fuzzy Wuzzy wuz a bear
Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair
Fuzzy Wuzzy wuzen't very fuzzy, wuz he"

Hard core racist.

User avatar
neoplacebo
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 6121
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Kingsport TN

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by neoplacebo »

O Really wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:23 pm
Commonly used terms that (may have) racist origins.
Still others, such as “peanut gallery” and “fuzzy wuzzy," remain in wide use despite their racially questionable origins.That's because the definition of these words and phrases have often been lost over time, experts said.
If few or anybody know the original racist definition, then what possible difference does it make now?

From my childhood, many decades ago:
"Fuzzy Wuzzy wuz a bear
Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair
Fuzzy Wuzzy wuzen't very fuzzy, wuz he"

Hard core racist.
Yeah, some of this stuff is starting to get out of hand. Almost like how the GOP see bogeymen under every bed and insist they're victims of it. I have no problem with changing the name of schools named after Nathan Bedford Forrest, but all this other shit seems a bridge too far to me.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26260
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by Vrede too »

If some do know the origins and find them hurtful, what's the harm in choosing alternate phrasing?

Otoh, I'm okay with calling a Karen a 'fussy wussy'. :wave:

"a bridge too far" is offensive to the casualties and survivors (and their families) of 1944's Operation Market Garden. ;)
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
billy.pilgrim
Rear admiral
Posts: 8783
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

Vrede too wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:56 pm
If some do know the origins and find them hurtful, what's the harm in choosing alternate phrasing?

Otoh, I'm okay with calling a Karen a 'fussy wussy'. :wave:

"a bridge too far" is offensive to the casualties and survivors (and their families) of 1944's Operation Market Garden. ;)
While there may be heartfelt memories when hearing the term a bridge too far, you you really think that anyone finds the term to be offensive?

As for Fuzzy, I wonder if anyone thinks this:
The term "Fuzzy Wuzzy" was originally used by British troops to describe the Beja warriors who supported the Mahdi in the Mahdist War of the late 19th century. The term was used due to the hairstyle of the troops and the bear term was added as a pun on the Beja tribe's name. This nickname was then used in a poem created by Rudyard Kipling as a sign of respect and admiration for the Beja troops who fought against the British and became a facet of popular culture from that time until the present day.

User avatar
billy.pilgrim
Rear admiral
Posts: 8783
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

Vrede too wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:38 am
GoCubsGo wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:04 am
Arkansas.
Disgusting.

Here are some commonly used terms that actually have racist origins

... Open the kimono ...

Fuzzy wuzzy ...

Plantation (shutter, blinds, style weddings, etc...) ...

Off the reservation ...

Eskimo ...

Peanut gallery ...

Paddy Wagon ...

(sit) Indian style ...

Mumbo jumbo ...
Plantation - disgusting, really? What do you have against large farms?

Peanut gallery?

Paddy wagon?

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26260
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by Vrede too »

I merely posted the article. You can reject its assertions and modern implications if you choose. I'm no historian, grammarian nor minority (including Irish heritage).
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:35 pm
While there may be heartfelt memories when hearing the term a bridge too far, you you really think that anyone finds the term to be offensive?

As for Fuzzy, I wonder if anyone thinks this:
The term "Fuzzy Wuzzy" was originally used by British troops to describe the Beja warriors who supported the Mahdi in the Mahdist War of the late 19th century. The term was used due to the hairstyle of the troops and the bear term was added as a pun on the Beja tribe's name. This nickname was then used in a poem created by Rudyard Kipling as a sign of respect and admiration for the Beja troops who fought against the British and became a facet of popular culture from that time until the present day.
My mention of Operation Market Garden is a joke, hence the " ;) ". I doubt that neoplacebo is offended.

The article says:
Fuzzy wuzzy

This is a late 1800’s term used by British colonial soldiers to refer to the members of an East African tribe. It became a derogatory way to refer to natural hair texture of non-white people throughout Africa, Cedric Burrows, author of "Rhetorical Crossover: The Black Rhetorical Presence in White Culture" told ABC News....
Whatever the Beja and Mahdi called the British troops and other Whites does not persist.

Fwiw, the Mahdist War lasted eighteen years, resulted in massive African casualties vs minimal British ones, and ended with UK domination of Sudan for over half a century.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
billy.pilgrim
Rear admiral
Posts: 8783
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

Vrede too wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:32 pm
I merely posted the article. You can reject its assertions and modern implications if you choose. I'm no historian, grammarian nor minority (including Irish heritage).
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:35 pm
While there may be heartfelt memories when hearing the term a bridge too far, you you really think that anyone finds the term to be offensive?

As for Fuzzy, I wonder if anyone thinks this:
The term "Fuzzy Wuzzy" was originally used by British troops to describe the Beja warriors who supported the Mahdi in the Mahdist War of the late 19th century. The term was used due to the hairstyle of the troops and the bear term was added as a pun on the Beja tribe's name. This nickname was then used in a poem created by Rudyard Kipling as a sign of respect and admiration for the Beja troops who fought against the British and became a facet of popular culture from that time until the present day.
My mention of Operation Market Garden is a joke, hence the " ;) ". I doubt that neoplacebo is offended.

The article says:
Fuzzy wuzzy

This is a late 1800’s term used by British colonial soldiers to refer to the members of an East African tribe. It became a derogatory way to refer to natural hair texture of non-white people throughout Africa, Cedric Burrows, author of "Rhetorical Crossover: The Black Rhetorical Presence in White Culture" told ABC News....
Whatever the Beja and Mahdi called the British troops and other Whites does not persist.

Fwiw, the Mahdist War lasted eighteen years, resulted in massive African casualties vs minimal British ones, and ended with UK domination of Sudan for over half a century.
Originally started as derogatory, but I'm betting the Kipling sign of respect and the silly children's rhythm are the known definitions.
Lots of insults get turned around and worn boldly.

This nickname was then used in a poem created by Rudyard Kipling as a sign of respect and admiration for the Beja troops who fought against the British and became a facet of popular culture from that time until the present day.


Plantation - disgusting, really? What do you have against large farms?

Peanut gallery?

Paddy wagon?

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 26260
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by Vrede too »

:roll: Again, I'm not going to pretend to be able to make the cases better than the experts cited in the article do. If you disagree with them, fine by me. For me, it's only about my language choices. I'm not going to grief others over these phrases.
"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

User avatar
O Really
Vice admiral
Posts: 13082
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: Race, lets make this serious! It is nearly 2013.

Unread post by O Really »

Some of the terms in this article, as well as in other examples and usage may very well have racist implications that are not culturally appropriate. But I think nit-picking (opps) every little possible affront detracts from things that matter. Like protesting Whack9's mouse hunt detracts from the protest about elephant poaching.

Besides, over time, terms and their meanings change. Like "gay," f'rinstance. And sometimes people use an expression without a clue as to what it originally meant. Like "by and large."
By and large is originally a sailing term meaning "alternately close-hauled and not close-hauled." A ship that is sailing "close-hauled" is sailing as directly into the wind as possible (typically within about 45 degrees of the wind). The "by" part of the phrase means "close-hauled." (This "by" also appears in the term full and by, meaning "sailing with all sails full and close to the wind as possible.") "Large," by contrast, refers to a point of sail in which the wind is hitting the boat "abaft the beam," or behind the boat's widest point. A 1669 example of a variant spelling of "by and large" gives us a sense of the range implied: "Thus you see the ship handled in fair weather and foul, by and learge" (S. Sturmy, Mariners Magazine). The suggestion of a wide range carries over into the term's "in general" sense.
And if you get rid of "paddy wagon" you have to get rid of "Fighting Irish."

Post Reply