Cultural Appropriation

Generally an unmoderated forum for discussion of pretty much any topic. The focus however, is usually politics.
User avatar
O Really
Captain
Posts: 10560
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by O Really » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:04 pm

Halloween costumes, in addition to being accused of being racist, sexist, misogynistic, etc. are also at the top of lists of "cultural appropriation." Other things, including white people adopting traditional black hairstyles, clothing styles, yada, might be a little more vague. Some things shouldn't reasonably be considered cultural appropriation in a negative sense at all, but sometimes are. Good articles, below:

Might need to turn off AdBlock for this one
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... olonialism

Follow up link from the original article
https://www.bustle.com/p/7-things-you-m ... -are-60679

Discussion of "blaccent"
http://www.mtv.com/news/2891156/stolen- ... -blaccent/

So it begs the question, why is it not cultural appropriation when black people adopt traditionally white styles and language? Not entirely a serious question, since there is the issue of actual or intended profit, demeaning or stereotyping of the culture, etc., but still...

User avatar
neoplacebo
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 3370
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Kingsport TN

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by neoplacebo » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:13 pm

I would guess that black folks assuming the trappings of traditional white American culture is looked upon as assimilation; like "look, they're like us" whereas the adoption of non white cultural mannerisms is regarded as "popular," "trendy," or "fashionable" instead of assimilation. I could be wrong.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 17923
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonvile, NC

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by Vrede too » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:59 pm

I don't know why but I once stole some petri dishes from my high school lab. I got caught and had to serve detention for cultural appropriation.

More seriously, I've mostly avoided the debate. I think cultural appropriation is real, but am kinda clueless as to where the line is between it and homage. When I wore a red and black Sandinista scarf in the 1980s, was it solidarity or cultural appropriation? In general, I try not to offend marginalized groups unless I have good reason to do so. They've got enough problems as it is.
Last edited by Vrede too on Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

User avatar
elephanter
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:09 pm

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by elephanter » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:05 am

I believe that cultural appropriation does not harm the culture as a whole. If someone is so uneducated to appropriate a foreign culture, in which he was not brought up, which he does not understand, this is their problem. Authentic culture exists only in an authentic environment. Everything else is postmodern.

User avatar
billy.pilgrim
Captain
Posts: 5742
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:24 am

Dude in my high school developed a thick British accent after spending two weeks in London. Seemed a little strange that it took 5 or 6 months to lose it.


As to Cultural Appropriation, there is always profit, or some form of gain - however trite or fadish, creating the motivation to move outside of the conventional.
George Carlin said “The owners know the truth. It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 17923
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonvile, NC

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by Vrede too » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:28 am

I was trying to think if demographically uber-mainstream me had ever been culturally appropriated. Hippie stuff came to mind, but that was already being ripped off before I was really old enough to be a hippie. Then, I actually thought of an example:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... A5Yq1DLSmQ

Pretty much everybody hated that one, albeit for different reasons. Mine was the trivialization of protest and of police interactions.

Pepsi’s Kendall Jenner Ad Was So Awful It Did the Impossible: It United the Internet
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

User avatar
billy.pilgrim
Captain
Posts: 5742
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:33 am

Vrede too wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:28 am
I was trying to think if demographically uber-mainstream me had ever been culturally appropriated. Hippie stuff came to mind, but that was already being ripped off before I was really old enough to be a hippie. Then, I actually thought of an example:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... A5Yq1DLSmQ

Pretty much everybody hated that one, albeit for different reasons. Mine was the trivialization of protest and of police interactions.

Pepsi’s Kendall Jenner Ad Was So Awful It Did the Impossible: It United the Internet
I wanted to be a cowboy and ride with Hopalong Cassidy, but that was already being ripped off before I was really old enough to be a cowboy from 1890. So I settled for being a 60s Alabama hippie.

Slightly weird: that Hopalong outfit, and a bunch of tuxedos, are the only black clothing I have ever worn. Closet full of navys and dark greys that could almost pass but no black. Could this be a total rejection of my childhood or a southerner's understanding that only Yankee new yorkers wear black or that I just didn't, is something we may never know.
George Carlin said “The owners know the truth. It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

User avatar
O Really
Captain
Posts: 10560
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by O Really » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:24 am

I think it depends on whether the adoption of parts of a culture does harm to the original - and that harm is not always obvious. I think it can be argued that the use of headdresses, spears, etc. as in Redskins' use is derogatory to the culture, no matter the stated intent. I think taking clothing or symbols that have significance to a given culture and wearing them as style/jewelry items is at least disrespectful. But things go from a given culture or subculture to the mainstream all the time. And then you have to consider what's "stolen" and what's "adapted" and what's a derivative. It's pretty clear if you listen to the Megan Trainor vid (or any of hers) that she's using a blackish language style that is not what she normally uses. Same with some other white rappers. But then you have Eminem, who grew up in a black neighborhood and always talked like that. Overall, though, I think for "cultural appropriate" to be a serious issue, the cultural aspects stolen have to have a long-term historical significance and have to be used frivolously and/or for profit. I'm pretty sure, though, that the term will soon be thrown around with as little regard to actual meaning as the term "political correctness."

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 17923
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonvile, NC

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by Vrede too » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:34 pm

A couple of you have mentioned the cultural appropriation often being for profit. I'll bet it's annoying to see others making money off of what one's culture developed. Seems that it's especially egregious when existing businesses and craftspeople lose out.

Otoh, given that I'm a clueless non-Black woman, I haven't understood the griping about the cultural appropriation of hairstyles. For better or worse - mostly better, imo - women always experiment with dramatic ways to feel better about their looks. What Black woman is harmed in any way if Betty Sue gives cornrows a try?

Speaking with zero authority on behalf of Whites, I grant full retroactive and future permission for non-Whites to appropriate our beehives and mullets.
Last edited by Vrede too on Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

User avatar
O Really
Captain
Posts: 10560
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by O Really » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:16 pm

Vrede too wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:34 pm
What Black woman is harmed in any way if Betty Sue gives cornrows a try?
They certainly survived Bo Derek

Image

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 17923
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonvile, NC

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by Vrede too » Tue May 21, 2019 10:15 am

Fans call out Khloé Kardashian for wearing cornrows

Khloe Kardashian is facing new charges of cultural appropriation after sharing vacation photos that show her wearing her hair in cornrows. The braided hairstyle has been popularized by people of color, who often face discrimination and dress code violations as a result.
Damn her for cultural appropriating Bo Derek.

While playing with her BLACK toddler at the beach! :roll: Maybe she appropriated that sperm, too. Also nailed a month ago for wearing a curly wig for Diana Ross' birthday. :confusion-scratchheadblue:

Really, folks? She's a Kardashian, plenty of real stuff to pan her for.
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

User avatar
O Really
Captain
Posts: 10560
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by O Really » Tue May 21, 2019 10:25 am

I read an article a couple of days ago by a black author severely criticizing the use of "people of color." Pointed out that with only a couple of letter changes, it easily becomes "colored people." But more importantly, it distorts various aspects - good and bad - that really apply only to black people. It was good - I'll post it if I can find it again.

Here it is... https://thyblackman.com/2019/05/20/stop ... -of-color/

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 17923
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonvile, NC

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by Vrede too » Tue May 21, 2019 10:58 am

O Really wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:25 am
I read an article a couple of days ago by a black author severely criticizing the use of "people of color." Pointed out that with only a couple of letter changes, it easily becomes "colored people." But more importantly, it distorts various aspects - good and bad - that really apply only to black people. It was good - I'll post it if I can find it again.

Here it is... https://thyblackman.com/2019/05/20/stop ... -of-color/
Thanks. It is odd in this case to talk about "popularized by people of color". I'm unaware of cornrows being popular with Aleuts, Mestizos and Mongolians.

I was just thinking a day or two ago that I've always been uncomfortable with the phrase, can't remember the context.
... One needs to ask why they’ve never heard the term “People Without Color” to understand the need for the term “People of Color”. One needs to ask why the 90% of the humanity who doesn’t identify as “white” needs to lump itself together for the convenience of the 10% who does....
:thumbup: It's like defining y'all as Non-Superstar Cultmasters.
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 17923
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonvile, NC

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by Vrede too » Fri May 24, 2019 12:18 pm

O Really wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:04 pm
... So it begs the question, why is it not cultural appropriation when black people adopt traditionally white styles and language? Not entirely a serious question, since there is the issue of actual or intended profit, demeaning or stereotyping of the culture, etc., but still...
neoplacebo wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:13 pm
I would guess that black folks assuming the trappings of traditional white American culture is looked upon as assimilation; like "look, they're like us" whereas the adoption of non white cultural mannerisms is regarded as "popular," "trendy," or "fashionable" instead of assimilation. I could be wrong.
Wrangler's Lil Nas X 'Old Town Road' collection slammed as cowboy 'cultural appropriation'

Image

:lol:

There are almost no actual cowboys left, and some of the original ones were Black. Pretty much everyone wearing cowboy garb or making cowboy music is guilty of cultural appropriation . . . or it doesn't exist at all in this instance. Either way, whining about a Black doing it is idiotic racism.
It really is time to stop being nice about stupidity.

User avatar
O Really
Captain
Posts: 10560
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by O Really » Fri May 24, 2019 1:11 pm


User avatar
neoplacebo
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 3370
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Kingsport TN

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by neoplacebo » Fri May 24, 2019 2:47 pm

I salute him and stand in Admiral admiration for his stance during the knife / lug wrench bar fight in Oakland (those are the worst kind of shit). He is truly the Mick Jagger of cowboys and at 47 he's probably got a couple more decades in him. :thumbup:

User avatar
neoplacebo
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 3370
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Kingsport TN

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by neoplacebo » Fri May 24, 2019 2:53 pm

I just today got a book from the local library "African Samurai" subtitiled "the true story of Yasuke, a legendary black warrior in feudal Japan." I've not started reading it yet, but am bracing myself for some double cultural appropriation; first the black Samurai in a racially pure society, and then me reading about it and becoming the accidental Samurai. It's gonna be bigger than big.

Whack9
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:31 pm

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by Whack9 » Fri May 24, 2019 3:23 pm

Obligatory Donald Trump culturally appropriating Oompa Loompas via orange-face comment.

User avatar
neoplacebo
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 3370
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Kingsport TN

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by neoplacebo » Fri May 24, 2019 4:58 pm

couldn't have said it butter myself

User avatar
O Really
Captain
Posts: 10560
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: Cultural Appropriation

Unread post by O Really » Fri May 24, 2019 10:55 pm

Ut oh. Somebody will be on the warpath.

"A trendy restaurant steak these days is the tomahawk, a thick cut of ribeye with a long exposed portion of bone attached, measuring 6 to 8 inches or more, which makes the whole thing look a little like a hatchet."

Post Reply