Sedition

[Vrede too]

On the one hand I wanted to see these RW assholes locked up. However, their claims reminded me of gullible Muslim and lefty supposed wannabe terrorists that really were too stupid and gullible to be a threat absent entrapment and manipulation by the FBI. I haven't studied this case, but it may be more of a win for civil liberties than it is a victory for rightwingnuttery.

Anybody that stupid needs to be shut down for stupidity, whether or not their speech was protected. BTW, did anybody notice what race the defendants were?

They're White, but other victims of FBI overreach have not been. There aren't enough prisons for this stupidity, but I accept the POSSIBILITY that their stupidity never would have been made manifest without FBI "leadership", and that's what the jurors apparently concluded.

[Vrede too]

Next year the Wall Street crowd will start a campaign to stop referring to making profits as "being in the black" but they've not decided what to call it.

Sounds like a holdover from self-congratulatory slave rapists, doesn't it?

[Vrede too]

(post: childish gibberish)
(signature: obsessed butthurt )

Awww. , Useless. So much for "Ignored". You fail again. Plus, Useless, you've been busted too many times for anyone to believe you're not reading my posts, anyhow. It's just your excuse for cowering. Awww.

[O Really]

. There aren't enough prisons for this stupidity, but I accept the POSSIBILITY that their stupidity never would have been made manifest without FBI "leadership", and that's what the jurors apparently concluded.

Oh, I was thinking more of them being shot with their own large dick compensators.

Anyway, I probably disagree with you on the placement of the line at which FBI investigation becomes "overreach."

[Vrede too]

Oh, I was thinking more of them being shot with their own large dick compensators.

Ah.

Anyway, I probably disagree with you on the placement of the line at which FBI investigation becomes "overreach."

Case by case. It happens, especially since 9/11, but I'm not saying that it was overreach in this case or any other particular one. However, it looks like the jurors heard the evidence and decided that this case was overreach, or at the least was not guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

[O Really]

If the cops take an initiative to trick or social engineer somebody into doing something they would not otherwise have done, I'd tend to say that's likely overreach, entrapment, yada. On the other hand, listening to somebody threaten to kidnap the governor and providing support of that thought in order to get usable evidence, I'd ten to find OK. If an undercover cop pretending to be a ho approaches a guy at the bar and tempts him into an illegal encounter, I'd call foul. If she's just hanging out in the bar and the guy solicits with offer to pay, I'd say that's fair game.

[Vrede too]

If the cops take an initiative to trick or social engineer somebody into doing something they would not otherwise have done, I'd tend to say that's likely overreach, entrapment, yada. On the other hand, listening to somebody threaten to kidnap the governor and providing support of that thought in order to get usable evidence, I'd ten to find OK. If an undercover cop pretending to be a ho approaches a guy at the bar and tempts him into an illegal encounter, I'd call foul. If she's just hanging out in the bar and the guy solicits with offer to pay, I'd say that's fair game.

Grey area. If idiot redneck (redundant, I know) braggadocio only becomes a feasible plot thanks to the FBI . . . well, that's why we have the ACLU and juries.

[O Really]

Grey area. If idiot redneck (redundant, I know) braggadocio only becomes a feasible plot thanks to the FBI . . . well, that's why we have the ACLU and juries.

Case by case, as you say. Too complex for a one size fits all rule. But if the conversation (grossly oversimplified) goes something like this:

Idiot: I wanna storm the capitol and nab the governor.
FBI: That's cool. What are you going to do.
Idiot: I need some stuff. I don't have enough guns and I need a couple more guys.
FBI: I can get you some guns, and help you with the bagging.
Idiot: And I need some money for more supplies, like a kidnap kit from Home Depot
FBI: Sure, no prob. How much do you need?
(Idiot goes to Home Depot, buys duct tape, plastic ties, tarp)
(FBI shows him some guns and says he's ready to go)
Idiot: Fuck yah, we gonna do it next week.

I'd say haul the idiot in. True, without the FBI's help and ummm "encouragement" he wouldn't have done it, but it wasn't because of lack of intent - it was just lack of resources. Idiot really does want to bag the Guv. Motive, means, opportunity. Idiot has the motive; he gets the means (albeit from the FBI) and he just needs the opportunty. Lock him up.

[neoplacebo]

Yeah, this month is "pile on any black person in authority" month for the GQP. The other day it was Justice Jackson, now Secretary Austin. I can't think of any other black people in the administration right off, but if they're there, they're next.

Kamala is always their go-to if it's a slow week.

Opps, GoCubsGo beat me to it by a couple of hours . I didn't notice the new page. Sorry neoplacebo, I didn't mean to pile on.

No problem. I was deservedly stomped for not immediately thinking of the VP as also a black person.

[neoplacebo]

On the one hand I wanted to see these RW assholes locked up. However, their claims reminded me of gullible Muslim and lefty supposed wannabe terrorists that really were too stupid and gullible to be a threat absent entrapment and manipulation by the FBI. I haven't studied this case, but it may be more of a win for civil liberties than it is a victory for rightwingnuttery.

Anybody that stupid needs to be shut down for stupidity, whether or not their speech was protected. BTW, did anybody notice what race the defendants were?

They're White, but other victims of FBI overreach have not been. There aren't enough prisons for this stupidity, but I accept the POSSIBILITY that their stupidity never would have been made manifest without FBI "leadership", and that's what the jurors apparently concluded.

I've not followed the case very close but do remember reading a couple of stories about how the FBI "informant" had to be cut loose by the FBI because he was becoming a "double agent" in the sense that he had warned one of the gang that he was about to be arrested. No idea if the informant testified at trial.

[Vrede too]

Best of all words - Former PINO trashed and a rioter is held accountable for his own actions:

Judge slams Trump as 'charlatan' after jury finds Jan. 6 rioter guilty on all counts

... "You know, I think our democracy is in trouble," Judge Reggie Walton said at the conclusion of the third jury trial for a defendant charged in the Capitol assault. "Because unfortunately, we have charlatans like our former president, who doesn't in my view really care about democracy, but only about power. And as a result of that, it's tearing this country apart."

Walton, an appointee of former President George W. Bush and one of the most senior judges on the D.C. court, said that he's received letters from people around the country expressing concern the justice system isn't confronting Jan. 6 -- which he called an "insurgency," with the seriousness it deserves.

"I have a concern that we have, unfortunately, American citizens who were so gullible that they were willing to accept what was being said without any proof that the allegations about the election had any merit whatsoever," Walton said. "People are just outraged at how they feel our system is not taking seriously what happened on that day because of their fear of the future of this country."

Judge Reggie Walton appointed to various posts by:
John Roberts
George W. Bush
Ronald Reagan

His remarks came after a jury delivered a guilty verdict for an Ohio man charged in the Jan. 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol who sought to defend himself by claiming he was following former Trump's "orders."

... Dozens of others among the nearly 800 people charged thus far in the Justice Department's Jan. 6 investigation have sought to make similar arguments, putting the onus on the former president and his allies who tricked them into believing baseless conspiracy theories about a stolen election.

That Thompson's defense fell flat with a jury could have an influence on other alleged rioters holding out hopes they could adopt a similar strategy in their cases.

"Defense counsel wants you to focus so much on what President Trump said on the morning of Jan. 6, he wants you to forget what his client did on the afternoon of Jan. 6," assistant US attorney Bill Dreher said in closing arguments Thursday. "Ladies and gentlemen, you don't have to choose. This is not President Trump's criminal trial."

... "That doesn't matter," he continued. "As long as you find -- if you find, that Mr. Thompson knew that what he was doing was unlawful. He was 36 years old on Jan. 6 ... an adult, not a child. President Trump didn't hold his hand as he walked down to the Capitol to loot and defile the Senate Parliamentarian's office."

... Following the reading of the verdict, Judge Walton ordered Thompson to remain in custody pending his sentencing and slammed him for his testimony in the trial, which Walton said he found "totally disingenuous" and "not truthful."

"I just don't think you can do what he did and what the other folks did if you're convicted and expect to be free," Walton said. "It's a consequence -- as my mother once told me, 'you make your bed you gotta lie in it.'"

Thompson is set to be sentenced in July.

Lock him up!

[Ulysses]

The One Way History Shows Trump’s Personality Cult Will End

In the summer of 2020, Ruth Ben-Ghiat was putting the final touches on her history of modern autocracy. She had to do it, though, without the benefit of knowing whether one of her most important subjects would remain in power come November.

...

She had seen enough of Donald Trump’s behavior over the preceding five years to know how neatly he lined up with other strongmen she had studied and how his autocratic tendencies would influence his behavior whether he won or lost.

“I just predicted that he wouldn’t leave in a quiet manner,” Ben-Ghiat, a professor of history and Italian studies at New York University told me recently. “He’s an authoritarian, and they can’t leave office. They don’t have good endings and they don’t leave properly.”

Nearly two years later — after a riot, an impeachment, and a monomaniacal campaign to punish the Republicans who tried to hold him accountable — Ben-Ghiat has ample proof of her thesis. And she professes even more concern that Trump’s sway over the GOP has permanently transformed the party’s political culture. “He’s changed the party to an authoritarian party culture,” she told me. “So not only do you go after external enemies, but you go after internal enemies. You’re not allowed to have any dissent.”

...

The end cannot come too soon.

[O Really]

"Oath Keeper emotional as he accepts 2nd plea deal in Jan. 6 seditious conspiracy case"

Not so tough now are you, asshole?

"Federal prosecutors on Friday secured a second guilty plea and cooperation deal with a member of the Oath Keepers militia group charged in the government's seditious conspiracy case stemming from the Jan. 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol.

Brian Ulrich, of Guyton, Georgia, admitted on Friday that he was part of the group of Oath Keepers that was seen during the riot ascending the east steps of the Capitol in a military-style "stack" formation.

The 44-year-old pleaded guilty to two felony charges of seditious conspiracy and obstruction of an official proceeding, both of which carry maximum sentences of 20 years in prison and fines up to $250,000. As outlined in his plea, Ulrich's estimated offense level carries a sentencing range between 63-78 months, though the government could recommend a lesser sentence based on the extent of his cooperation.
...

He could be heard weeping over the teleconference line several times through the remainder of the hearing."

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/oath-keeper-e ... 24571.html

[GoCubsGo]

He could be heard weeping over the teleconference line several times through the remainder of the hearing."

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/oath-keeper-e ... 24571.html

Probably crying because he got caught. These assholes are always big babies during trial and sentencing but odds are the next time we see him he'll be defiant like that dumbo blonde Realtor from Texas who said she'd never go to prison because she's white and blonde then was all remorseful, served her too light sentence and turned asshat when released.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jenna-rya ... nspiracies

[O Really]

It's easy to talk big when you're out in a crowd with your yayhoo buds. Not quite so easy when you're facing a real sentence and forced to turn on the rest of your group. It does reinforce the idea, however, that even though these guys really are dangerous, they're also a bunch of bullying wimps.

[Ulysses]

It's easy to talk big when you're out in a crowd with your yayhoo buds. Not quite so easy when you're facing a real sentence and forced to turn on the rest of your group. It does reinforce the idea, however, that even though these guys really are dangerous, they're also a bunch of bullying wimps.

A bit of a contradiction, no?

Of course even a wimp can be dangerous depending on the situation.

Well, at least Mr. Ulrich is testifying against his confederates.

I used to know another Ulrich in a quite different setting. Sports reporting. AFAIK, no relation to Mr. Brian Ulrich.

[Vrede too]

It's easy to talk big when you're out in a crowd with your yayhoo buds. Not quite so easy when you're facing a real sentence and forced to turn on the rest of your group. It does reinforce the idea, however, that even though these guys really are dangerous, they're also a bunch of bullying wimps.

Shoulda watched the movie.

Crying? There's no crying in insurrection!

[O Really]

It's easy to talk big when you're out in a crowd with your yayhoo buds. Not quite so easy when you're facing a real sentence and forced to turn on the rest of your group. It does reinforce the idea, however, that even though these guys really are dangerous, they're also a bunch of bullying wimps.

Shoulda watched the movie.

Crying? There's no crying in insurrection!

I'm pretty sure GoCubsGo is right that he's just crying because he got caught - and because he realized he'd really screwed up his life and his family. But for people like them, I don't care about remorse - I just want punishment.

[GoCubsGo]

It's easy to talk big when you're out in a crowd with your yayhoo buds. Not quite so easy when you're facing a real sentence and forced to turn on the rest of your group. It does reinforce the idea, however, that even though these guys really are dangerous, they're also a bunch of bullying wimps.

Shoulda watched the movie.

Crying? There's no crying in insurrection!

I'm pretty sure GoCubsGo is right that he's just crying because he got caught - and because he realized he'd really screwed up his life and his family. But for people like them, I don't care about remorse - I just want punishment.

One of my faves.

[Vrede too]

One of my faves.

That's just how neoplacebo's neighbors are.