Failed prohibition

Generally an unmoderated forum for discussion of pretty much any topic. The focus however, is usually politics.
Post Reply
User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 54821
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Vrede too »

O Really wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2024 1:16 pm
Well, I can see why Virginia and NC might be hesitant. After all, in the more than a decade that states have legalized recreational weed, all of the worst predictions and nightmares of "Reefer Madness" have all occurred. Oh wait.

Well, surely Virginia and NC wouldn't want any revenue from that evil weed, would they? I mean, what in the world would they need with an extra half-billion or so in revenue?
https://www.fastcompany.com/91109592/ta ... -4-20-2024
:D :thumbup: Meanwhile:
Maryland is pardoning 175,000 marijuana convictions. It's part of a trend

Image
Gov. Wes Moore, center, holds an executive order authorizing pardons for at least 175,000 criminal convictions related to marijuana. Legalization, Moore said, “doesn't erase the fact that Black Marylanders were three times more likely to be arrested for cannabis than white Marylanders before legalization."

Maryland Gov. Wes Moore is absolving people convicted of more than 175,000 cannabis-related crimes, in what the governor called “the most sweeping state level pardon in any state in American history.”

The large-scale absolution comes a year after Maryland legalized recreational marijuana use. The lion’s share of the cases are misdemeanors: More than 150,000 convictions are for possession of cannabis, and more than 18,000 convictions are for possession with intent to use drug paraphernalia.

“We cannot celebrate the benefits of legalization if we do not address the consequences of criminalization,” Moore, a Democrat, said before signing an executive order issuing the pardons on Monday.

The governor’s office did not specify how many people would be affected by the pardons, noting that one person could have multiple eligible convictions. And while the initial tally focuses on cases in the state’s computerized system, people with records that predate the system could also seek to have even decades-old convictions absolved....

States increasingly forgive low-level drug offenses

Maryland is one of 24 states, plus the District of Columbia, where adult recreational use of cannabis has been legalized. In nearly every case, momentum toward legalizing marijuana has also brought efforts to repair direct and collateral damage done by earlier drug laws.

Hundreds of thousands of marijuana-related criminal convictions have been forgiven, cleared, sealed or expunged altogether, according to NORML, the group that has long advocated to legalize marijuana nationally.

In some states, expungement is required by constitutional amendments legalizing cannabis. The action is more far-reaching than a pardon, as it removes a criminal conviction from the public record entirely.

The states take different methods to clear criminal records; those with automatic expungement processes, such as California and Illinois, have handled massive amounts of cases. But the time frame for that process can span years, depending on the date and nature of the offense....

What’s next?

...Moore pledged last year that Maryland’s new cannabis policies would encourage social equity and restorative justice as it launched a state recreational market. While pardons are part of that plan, so are economic opportunities.

“In March, we conducted our first adult use cannabis licensing round, and all 174 licenses were awarded exclusively to social equity applicants,” Moore said on Monday. “And to be clear, that's the first time that that has happened in our nation's history.”
:happy-cheerleaderkid: x 175,000. I'm proud of my former home. A pardon could have very easily applied to teen Vrede too 8-)
"Strike against manufacturing shrapnel and gas bombs and all other tools of murder!... Be not dumb, obedient slaves in an army of destruction.... Strike against war, for without you no battles can be fought!"
-- Helen Keller, Carnegie Hall, 1916

User avatar
O Really
Admiral
Posts: 22492
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by O Really »

Good move.

I'd like a little more detail on the comment "... Black Marylanders were three times more likely to be arrested for cannabis than white Marylanders..."
I'm sure it's true, but without some reason why that occurred, it's not very meaningful. It could be simple discrimination, profiling, or general harassment. Or it could be that they arrested mostly dealers and big users and maybe most of them were Black.lk [Opps, that wouldn't be the case - I reread the article and those pardoned are all misdemeanors] Or it could be that the Black guys were caught for something else and they tagged on the pot charge when they found some. It's also interesting that he said "arrested," and not "convicted." Wonder if that's also 3-1. And of those pardoned, is that the same 3-1 ratio he claimed for the arrests?

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 54821
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Vrede too »

O Really wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 7:19 pm
Good move.

I'd like a little more detail on the comment "... Black Marylanders were three times more likely to be arrested for cannabis than white Marylanders..."
I'm sure it's true, but without some reason why that occurred, it's not very meaningful. It could be simple discrimination, profiling, or general harassment. Or it could be that they arrested mostly dealers and big users and maybe most of them were Black.lk [Opps, that wouldn't be the case - I reread the article and those pardoned are all misdemeanors] Or it could be that the Black guys were caught for something else and they tagged on the pot charge when they found some. It's also interesting that he said "arrested," and not "convicted." Wonder if that's also 3-1.
My understanding is that the disproportionate enforcement is across the spectrum - arrest, prosecution, conviction and sentencing for Blacks and Latinos - despite pot usage being fairly equal to that of Whites.
And of those pardoned, is that the same 3-1 ratio he claimed for the arrests?
Could it be otherwise?
"Strike against manufacturing shrapnel and gas bombs and all other tools of murder!... Be not dumb, obedient slaves in an army of destruction.... Strike against war, for without you no battles can be fought!"
-- Helen Keller, Carnegie Hall, 1916

User avatar
neoplacebo
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 12084
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Kingsport TN

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by neoplacebo »

The marijuana shop in VA near my place is open again. Probably go and overlook their wares tomorrow.

User avatar
GoCubsGo
Admiral
Posts: 19869
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:22 am

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by GoCubsGo »

neoplacebo wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:42 pm
The marijuana shop in VA near my place is open again. Probably go and overlook their wares tomorrow.
Yay!

Image
Eamus Catuli~AC 000000 000101 010202 020303 010304 020405....Ahhhh, forget it, it's gonna be a while.

User avatar
neoplacebo
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 12084
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Kingsport TN

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by neoplacebo »

GoCubsGo wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2024 5:15 pm
neoplacebo wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:42 pm
The marijuana shop in VA near my place is open again. Probably go and overlook their wares tomorrow.
Yay!

Image
:D It has a new name so I'm wondering if the whole thing is temporary....but I did see a "don't drive high" ad from the VA state police the other day that said "the marijuana laws in VA have changed" so maybe this will save me some time and phone calls.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 54821
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Vrede too »

neoplacebo wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2024 8:46 pm
:D It has a new name so I'm wondering if the whole thing is temporary....but I did see a "don't drive high" ad from the VA state police the other day that said "the marijuana laws in VA have changed" so maybe this will save me some time and phone calls.
Let us know, please.


Image

Community college alum and self-proclaimed epidemiologist Rep Chuck Edwards (R-NC11) owns several local McDonald's franchises :roll:

Just Say No . . . to Big Macs!
"Strike against manufacturing shrapnel and gas bombs and all other tools of murder!... Be not dumb, obedient slaves in an army of destruction.... Strike against war, for without you no battles can be fought!"
-- Helen Keller, Carnegie Hall, 1916

User avatar
neoplacebo
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 12084
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Kingsport TN

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by neoplacebo »

I figure to visit the place today. Hell, I may even ask if they need any part time help.

User avatar
neoplacebo
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 12084
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Kingsport TN

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by neoplacebo »

neo report from hard by the Virginia line. Went to the newly opened pot shop a while ago. Different people running it. Different setup. You just pick from one of five grades (you can visually see each one in small display boxes at the counter). So I got 3.5gm of the best grade (neo hates average anything) for 50. Alex. It's as good as any I've ever had in 55 years except maybe for that stuff from Thailand that we'd get now and then in that area.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 54821
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Vrede too »

neoplacebo wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:47 am
neo report from hard by the Virginia line. Went to the newly opened pot shop a while ago. Different people running it. Different setup. You just pick from one of five grades (you can visually see each one in small display boxes at the counter). So I got 3.5gm of the best grade (neo hates average anything) for 50. Alex. It's as good as any I've ever had in 55 years except maybe for that stuff from Thailand that we'd get now and then in that area.
Cool. No mention of a VA med card? That's $400/oz, steep.
"Strike against manufacturing shrapnel and gas bombs and all other tools of murder!... Be not dumb, obedient slaves in an army of destruction.... Strike against war, for without you no battles can be fought!"
-- Helen Keller, Carnegie Hall, 1916

User avatar
neoplacebo
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 12084
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Kingsport TN

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by neoplacebo »

Vrede too wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:49 am
neoplacebo wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:47 am
neo report from hard by the Virginia line. Went to the newly opened pot shop a while ago. Different people running it. Different setup. You just pick from one of five grades (you can visually see each one in small display boxes at the counter). So I got 3.5gm of the best grade (neo hates average anything) for 50. Alex. It's as good as any I've ever had in 55 years except maybe for that stuff from Thailand that we'd get now and then in that area.
Cool. No mention of a VA med card? That's $400/oz, steep.
Nope, just asked me for "an ID" and I gave them my old military ID, which is what I use here to vote. They didn't take a picture of it or even write down my name, just checked to make sure I was over 21. They told me next time I get a 5% discount. I can hardly wait until I've reached my twenty firrst time, whciih logically would mean I get it free. It is expensive but no more so than the black market (except for my old buddy in Asheville who'd give me half price).

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 54821
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Vrede too »

neoplacebo wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:59 am
Vrede too wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:49 am
Cool. No mention of a VA med card? That's $400/oz, steep.
Nope, just asked me for "an ID" and I gave them my old military ID, which is what I use here to vote. They didn't take a picture of it or even write down my name, just checked to make sure I was over 21. They told me next time I get a 5% discount. I can hardly wait until I've reached my twenty first time, which logically would mean I get it free. It is expensive but no more so than the black market (except for my old buddy in Asheville who'd give me half price).
Cool :thumbup: 8-) Only a stoner would figure that the 5% discount is cumulative :P
Great Smoky Cannabis Dispensary opens for all adults over 21

... . As of today, any adult 21 or older can now legally purchase marijuana within the Qualla Boundary, although marijuana remains illegal in the rest of the state.
:happy-cheerleaderkid:
Image
https://dutchie.com/stores/great-smoky-cannabis-company

All Flower
Looks like $320-$400/oz

All Edibles

Other products are available. There's online ordering for pickup, but I'd rather peruse in the store and keep my personal info offline.
"Strike against manufacturing shrapnel and gas bombs and all other tools of murder!... Be not dumb, obedient slaves in an army of destruction.... Strike against war, for without you no battles can be fought!"
-- Helen Keller, Carnegie Hall, 1916

User avatar
neoplacebo
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 12084
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Kingsport TN

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by neoplacebo »

Vrede too wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2024 6:53 pm
neoplacebo wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:59 am
Vrede too wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:49 am
Cool. No mention of a VA med card? That's $400/oz, steep.
Nope, just asked me for "an ID" and I gave them my old military ID, which is what I use here to vote. They didn't take a picture of it or even write down my name, just checked to make sure I was over 21. They told me next time I get a 5% discount. I can hardly wait until I've reached my twenty first time, which logically would mean I get it free. It is expensive but no more so than the black market (except for my old buddy in Asheville who'd give me half price).
Cool :thumbup: 8-) Only a stoner would figure that the 5% discount is cumulative :P
Great Smoky Cannabis Dispensary opens for all adults over 21

... . As of today, any adult 21 or older can now legally purchase marijuana within the Qualla Boundary, although marijuana remains illegal in the rest of the state.
:happy-cheerleaderkid:
Image
https://dutchie.com/stores/great-smoky-cannabis-company

All Flower
Looks like $320-$400/oz

All Edibles

Other products are available. There's online ordering for pickup, but I'd rather peruse in the store and keep my personal info offline.
:lol: Yep, when they forst told me about the discount, I immediately thought about it being a cumulative discount. And actually, when I went there a couple weeks ago they say my discount is 10% so I've got that going for me, too. I don't know if I rate a double discount or if I was told wrong the last time.

Cool. Let us know what the place in Indian country is like.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 54821
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Vrede too »

O Really wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 7:19 pm
...
Why do you think they call it dope? Oceanside men ran out of gas :angry-banghead:


Small plane carrying drugs makes emergency landing on SR-76 in Oceanside | NBC 7 San Diego

One is a flying instructor :lol:
"Strike against manufacturing shrapnel and gas bombs and all other tools of murder!... Be not dumb, obedient slaves in an army of destruction.... Strike against war, for without you no battles can be fought!"
-- Helen Keller, Carnegie Hall, 1916

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 54821
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Vrede too »

State votes on marijuana and psychedelics signal drug policy concerns

Sigh :( Maybe our window of tolerance and rationality has closed.
"Strike against manufacturing shrapnel and gas bombs and all other tools of murder!... Be not dumb, obedient slaves in an army of destruction.... Strike against war, for without you no battles can be fought!"
-- Helen Keller, Carnegie Hall, 1916

User avatar
O Really
Admiral
Posts: 22492
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by O Really »

Vrede too wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2024 9:35 am
State votes on marijuana and psychedelics signal drug policy concerns

Sigh :( Maybe our window of tolerance and rationality has closed.
I can't speak for other places, but the California Prop 36 is, IMNVHO, pretty reasonable. It focuses on, and raises potential penalties for, repeat offenders and allows for some sentencing discretion for illegal sales, depending on what is sold. Illegally selling fentanyl, for example, gets a longer sentence than illegally selling cocaine. And it established a rehab-oriented drug court. Here's a real summary if anyone is interested:

https://lao.ca.gov/BallotAnalysis/Propo ... &year=2024

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 54821
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Vrede too »

O Really wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2024 12:02 pm
I can't speak for other places, but the California Prop 36 is, IMNVHO, pretty reasonable. It focuses on, and raises potential penalties for, repeat offenders and allows for some sentencing discretion for illegal sales, depending on what is sold. Illegally selling fentanyl, for example, gets a longer sentence than illegally selling cocaine. And it established a rehab-oriented drug court. Here's a real summary if anyone is interested:

https://lao.ca.gov/BallotAnalysis/Propo ... &year=2024
Thanks. As a radical anti-prohibitionist I probably would have voted No, but it makes me feel better that you found it "pretty reasonable."
"Strike against manufacturing shrapnel and gas bombs and all other tools of murder!... Be not dumb, obedient slaves in an army of destruction.... Strike against war, for without you no battles can be fought!"
-- Helen Keller, Carnegie Hall, 1916

User avatar
O Really
Admiral
Posts: 22492
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by O Really »

Vrede too wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2024 12:08 pm

Thanks. As a radical anti-prohibitionist I probably would have voted No, but it makes me feel better that you found it "pretty reasonable."
Doesn't it make it more acceptable that it focuses on repeat offenders and actually dangerous stuff? No "Reefer Madness" here.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 54821
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by Vrede too »

O Really wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2024 12:26 pm
Vrede too wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2024 12:08 pm
Thanks. As a radical anti-prohibitionist I probably would have voted No, but it makes me feel better that you found it "pretty reasonable."
Doesn't it make it more acceptable that it focuses on repeat offenders and actually dangerous stuff? No "Reefer Madness" here.
IMO law enforcement "solutions" have done nothing to protect us from the "actually dangerous stuff". Depending on whether you credit Nixon or Reagan the Drug War is 45-55 years old and more Americans are fatally ODing than ever.

That said, I accept that the referendum/initiative probably does some good things and that there are reasons that 70% of you voted for it. I would have had to study it more than the glance I gave your link. I still think I would have voted NO, but maybe not.

We don't have initiatives in NC and the Leg rarely refers CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS to us. This year it was "CITIZENS-ONLY VOTING", a national movement on several state ballots to have Big Brother state government prevent the very rare local government from allowing non-citizen voting on matters that affect all residents. I voted in favor of local control, but of course it passed 78-22. Same margins elsewhere. :roll:
"Strike against manufacturing shrapnel and gas bombs and all other tools of murder!... Be not dumb, obedient slaves in an army of destruction.... Strike against war, for without you no battles can be fought!"
-- Helen Keller, Carnegie Hall, 1916

User avatar
O Really
Admiral
Posts: 22492
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: Failed prohibition

Unread post by O Really »

So since when does a DWI (OWI in WI) get a person fired if they're not a professional driver?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/jack-del-rio ... 06395.html

That would be a decade or so when DWI got escalated (in perception) from a traffic violation to some criminal-ish moral failing equivalent of domestic or sexual assault. And the definition of "heavy" drinking has decreased. And no beers at lunch for years. Stealthy slippery slope prohibition.

Post Reply