Getting personal?

[Jasmine]

Post-election, I see a lot of angry people on social media declaring that they are disowning friends and even family members who voted for Trump. Others are urging people to not invite Trump supporters to Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners.

I think that’s downright sad.

I have lots of friends and family members who are liberal (they support Obama, Biden, Obama, etc.) and I would never in a million years disown or abandon them. I think putting politics ahead of family and friends is pretty disgraceful.

What are your thoughts on this?

[O Really]

Depends on the persons. I've had lots of friends over the years with different political views from me, but Trump is especially divisive and polarizing. Anybody who is willing to go along with a "no politics" rule for the holiday festivities is welcome. Otherwise, they can stay home. But that's my view as an old generic white guy. Let's say I was gay, I'd have a hard time inviting a Trumper with their anti-gay views. Because that Trump vote is directly against me personally.

[Vrede too]

I don't have any MAGAt friends or family members. When I was working I avoided political discussions because I have such strong beliefs. One coworker who I liked and respected volunteered that he was voting for DonOLD in 2016. I did not engage and did not get angry. However, it created a sadness that still weighs on me. It would be even worse now with all that we've learned about Dolt .45 since 2016.

I could go with O Really's "no politics" rule if I was suspicious of leanings, but would have trouble dealing with a known Trumpette as much as I would a known pedophile, xenophobe, anti-Semite, homophobe, misogynist or racist.

[GoCubsGo]

The no politics rule is key.

I had a lot of Republican friends in North Carolina, but no wingnuts. We did have shared interests and it wasn't an issue.

I'm having ten people over for Thanksgiving and politics is not on the menu. Plenty of good conversation to be had.

[O Really]

But even "no politics" is hard to enforce now with so many things true ed into Red/Blue that don't need to be. There's a lot of people out there who would change their position if you said "I agree"

[Whack9]

I think some situations it's acceptable, others probably not. I've got some Trump voting family members that I maintain a good relationship with. We don't talk politics. I found out one of my best friends voted Trump, but in his case it was largely out of ignorance as he doesn't really follow politics. On the other hand I've known people that went deep off the rails into conspiracy theories and such and made MAGA their entire identity. I've cut them off mostly because they've become absolutely insufferable. I think it's also justifiable if someone becomes toxic with hate and anger and resentment, but that's simply a good rule for life in general, not just the political sphere.

[O Really]

Lady O and I are fortunate to live largely in out own bubble, and we don't know any hard core MAGA people personally. If we were younger, still working or belonged to community organizations, we'd find a way to get along, but we don't have to. However, we'll run across somebody from time to time, maybe on a walking trail or in a park. Usually conversation may start with "nice day...pretty dog..., yada" but may continue for a while. If they're Trumpers, they will - 100% of the time and without exception - say something stupid. Not necessarily confrontational, usually in a friendly manner, but they'll say, e.g., "this is a nice park - Newsom hasn't set any fires here yet." Or something else that's demonstrably false on its face. It's hard to continue with that. You have to either (a) correct the statement, which would start an argument; or (b) go along with the statement and feel stupid yourself, or (c) say something like "nice to meet you, enjoy your walk" and walk away. We take option (c). And we would also adapt option (c) if "Uncle Charlie" got off on a MAGArant at dinner.

[GoCubsGo]

That's the correct strategy.

[O Really]

So Jasmine - if you asked your conservative friends "what do liberals/progressives believe in" or "what are the principles of liberal ideology" what would they say?

[Jasmine]

So Jasmine - if you asked your conservative friends "what do liberals/progressives believe in" or "what are the principles of liberal ideology" what would they say?

I’m not sure. I would never think to even ask that. Even with my conservative friends, we don’t talk politics.

[O Really]

So Jasmine - if you asked your conservative friends "what do liberals/progressives believe in" or "what are the principles of liberal ideology" what would they say?

I’m not sure. I would never think to even ask that. Even with my conservative friends, we don’t talk politics.

So what do YOU think?

[Vrede too]

Same original question, higher stakes:

I Was Having Sex With An Old Hookup. Midway Through, I Discovered He Was A Trump Supporter.
"In a way, it felt like he was trying to impress me. In another, it felt like he was baiting me."

Should she cancel him? Did she?

Spoiler:

... “I can’t have sex with someone who’s voting for Donald Trump,” I heard myself say, and next thing I knew I was grabbing my Isabel Marant dress off the floor. He seemed dumbfounded, and in a way I sort of was too. But I knew on a cellular level, before the words had even formed, that there was no way I could knowingly let a Trump supporter touch me.

As I flung pieces of clothing onto my body, I heard myself muttering other things, like “You’re super great” and “Take care, good luck!” (With what? Oh, my God, Carla, stop talking.) He protested, dejected — “I haven’t come yet” — and I said, “Oops, sorry, Uber’s here, gotta run!” I flew down the stairs of his building and never saw him again.

... The revelation of Layaway Man’s voting intentions was a true lady-boner killer — but it was my inherent privilege that kept me from needing to know earlier.

In a post–Jan. 6 world, I won’t make that mistake again. Like those women on the street with Billy Eichner and Will Ferrell, I can tell you, “Absolutely not, ew, [puking sound] — I would not have sex with a Trump voter.” And I mean it. Instead, I’m hoping to come across a guy who gives me the feelings in my body Layaway Man once did, but the feelings in my heart and my brain that only a Kamala supporter could.

Our bodies are battlegrounds, now more than ever, and gaining access to mine has always been a privilege to be earned. Now I have an even stricter door policy, one based on doing no harm. If my body is a wonderland you want to experience, then to even be considered for entry, you better fucking vote to protect all bodies. Otherwise, you may not ride. Those are the rules.

[Jasmine]

So Jasmine - if you asked your conservative friends "what do liberals/progressives believe in" or "what are the principles of liberal ideology" what would they say?

I’m not sure. I would never think to even ask that. Even with my conservative friends, we don’t talk politics.

So what do YOU think?

I think leftist-libbies support:

Abortion rights
Gay marriage
Transgenderism
Open borders
BLM
Reparations
Men playing women sports
Big government spending and control
Entitlements
Radical environmentalism
Student loan forgiveness
Soft on crime
International government
Wokeism

That’s off the top of my head.

[O Really]

Thanks - I, as a lifelong lib, certainly do support many of those on the list. But with due respect, I think some of them may be a bit distorted.
Here are my own (speaking for no one else) thoughts:

Abortion rights - absolutely, but nothing exotic. Just the same Roe v. Wade that worked for 50 years.

Gay marriage - sure, if it's the state that's conferring benefits, it should apply to everyone. Religions don't have to recognize it.

Transgenderism - "support" might be a little strong, but I don't think it should be illegal, nor that people who take that route should be discriminated against

Open borders - naaa, nobody wants open borders, nor are they open now. Problem is the funky laws on seeking asylum allow people in and let them stay while their case is heard sometime in the future. Congress could fix it, but they'd rather play politics than do so.

BLM - I'd have liked it a lot better if they'd chosen the slogan "Black Lives Matter TOO" , and I wish their protests hadn't been taken over by looting rioters, but I don't approve of cops shooting unarmed people in their own apartments.

Reparations - I'm not personally that supportive except in some rare cases.

Men playing women sports - I'm guessing you mean reconstructed or partially reconstructed former men, but IMNVHO, if you've got a dick, you aren't eligible to play in the womens' league even if you bought a nice set of boobs and take hormones. Let them come back after they've finished the process and we'll talk.

Big government spending and control - that's a little broad. Government IS big when you've got a country of 330 million people and the biggest economy in the world. And controlling various things is its job. We might have differences on what money is spent on, and what particular laws and regulations should be, but no matter who's in office, lots of money gets spent and lots of laws/regulations get passed.

Entitlements - Sure, I'm kinda fond of Social Security, Medicare, which are the two largest entitlements. I also support safety net programs like unemployment compensation and programs feeding hungry kids.

Radical environmentalism - I don't know about "radical", but I certainly think we can do a lot better job with the environment, and are capable of wreaking great damage. I certainly live with evidence of long term climate change every day, so it would be a bit foolish for me to deny it.

Student loan forgiveness - I don't really know enough about those programs to have much of an opinion, but I know there were a lot of students scammed by people offering loans that leaves them in lifetime debt when under normal circumstances they wouldn't be eligible for a Visa Card. It's likely writing off some of that debt would benefit the economy as a whole.

Soft on crime - I don't see much evidence of that, even living in California where there was a lot of criticism over the law that changed some felonies down to misdemeanors, that some called the "shoplifters bill of rights." That has since been fixed in the last referendum, but really, do you want to see non-violent first offence thiefs to serve prison time? I'd rather have violent people locked up and non-violent people subject to other punishments.

International government - I don't know what that means, but if it's alliances and treaties like the EU, I think it's a good idea.

Wokeism - I don't know any lefties that ever use the term, and it's been redefined by the right to mean generically anything that shows consideration of any other culture. When the impact of using "politically correct" wore off from over- and mis-use, they took the term "woke" out of context and demonized it.

So what do you think about the same list of topics?

[O Really]

By the way, if you'd asked me to make a list about what libs believe/support, it would have been somewhat different from yours.

[Jasmine]

O Really,

Thank you for your detailed response. I know I shouldn’t generalize like that.

Feel free to share what you think liberalism is about.

[Vrede too]

I think leftist-libbies support:
I'm no lib.

Abortion rights
Damn straight. Unlike cons I don't want to see Big Brother's filthy fingers in women's wombs.
Gay marriage
I support all marriage between two consenting adults, and oppose christofascist discrimination.
Transgenderism
That's a fact of humanity. My support for the undeniable is irrelevant.
Open borders
That's a GQP talking point. We don't have them and our immigration mess is mostly due to RepuQ pols who want to have a permanent issue to rile their gullible minions with. That's why the bipartisan reform bill was quashed by TRE45QN last summer.
BLM
Damn straight.
Reparations
Cash handouts, no. Some mechanism for compensating for the privileges I've enjoyed since birth because of the color or my skin, perhaps. The devil will be in the details.
Men playing women sports
Nope, I think they should be restricted to women. In fact, I'm unaware of any "Men playing women sports".
Big government spending and control
Pffft, cons support "Big government spending" on the military and prison industrial complexes, "and control" of personal choices like women's bodies, adult marriage, recreational substances, etc.
Entitlements
VA benefits, SSI, Medicare/Medicaid, IHS, Public education - Damn straight. Which do you oppose?
Radical environmentalism
Damn straight, if nonviolent.
Student loan forgiveness
Mixed feelings. I'd want to learn more about how it will benefit the economy for all of us.
Soft on crime
Imprisoning more per capita than any other nation sure ain't working. Unlike cons I prefer exploring alternatives over continuing to throw money at what we KNOW doesn't work.
International government
I don't know what that means. I support treaties, peacekeeping, the ICC, cross-border pollution control, Interpol, AGW prevention and mitigation, the IAEA, etc. Which of these do you disapprove of?
Wokeism
That's a MAGAt invention. Why ask us?

That’s off the top of my head.
Take your time.

[GoCubsGo]

Agree with O Really and add that progressives really suck at naming shit.

BLM is a terrible metaphor to represent two systems of justice and Defund the Police is just as bad for wanting to put more funds and effort into different ways of deescalation training.

Lefites really need to take a lesson from righties. They scream wokeism and CRT and nobody knows what the fuck they mean but it works.


As an aside, does anyone remember a few years ago when Banni linked us to a progressive/conservative quiz and it showed us graphically where we fell? I remember I was left of center but not extreme.

Be fun to see if it was updated and take it again.

[Vrede too]

As an aside, does anyone remember a few years ago when Banni linked us to a progressive/conservative quiz and it showed us graphically where we fell? I remember I was left of center but not extreme.

Be fun to see if it was updated and take it again.

Here it is. The Political Compass link still works if anyone wants to retake the test, or if Jasmine wants to give it a shot.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

viewtopic.php?p=157779#p157779

Some edgy people here and there will claim to be communists. Not a lot. I guess you see it more on the internet because people across a wide geographic span can congregate in a central place, like we're doing on this forum.

People on the right vastly overestimate the communist/Marxist thing as all of us are already aware. The weirdest shit for me was being called a socialist after telling someone I voted for Obama in 2008. Then around 2014 or so people seemed to start calling everything they didn't like communist. I knew a few who did that before I cut them out of my life because they became absolutely insufferable to be around....

Insufferable.

I've usually found organized communists to be assholes and organized socialists to be annoying. However, I call myself, only partially tongue-in-cheek, a nonviolent, “Small is Beautiful”, anarcho-socialist revolutionary libertarian.

This is interesting:
viewtopic.php?p=37128#p37128

I couldn't remember where I fell on the political compass, so I took it again.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test



My results:


Libertarian?!?!?!

Oh well, could be worse.... could be right....

I found CPF's average!

I came out about the same place as Gandhi. From the center of the graph, I'm three lines down and five lines left. I wonder if I should get some sandals and a sari?

That's:
Economic Left/Right: -5.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.00

Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.15

Lower left.
Not far from Banni.

Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.13

I'm as economic socialist as banni and more social libertarian than y'all were. Oddly, Liz!/Bernie! fan me is not as economic lefty as Bloomberg-supporting O Really was and still may be. Go figure.

Your Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: -5.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.67

The Useless usual :

Did you save your numbers? It makes it a bit easier to compare among us.

And what would be the point of that?

It's just interesting, it's something you've already partially done by posting your graph, and it's what almost all of us have chosen to do.

So the point is to conform?

How establishment.

Got it, you stupidly neglected to include your numbers and now you're desperately creating idiotic excuses for not completing what you'd already partially done by posting your graph because, as always, your ego is so tragically delicate when you're innocently asked for elaboration.

Anyhow, whiner, your numbers are approximately:

Economic Left/Right: -3.10
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.60

Resistance to conformity is futile .

There are other posts to the thread, these are just the ones from current members who posted their scores.

[GoCubsGo]

Thanks!