A U.S. appeals court killed President Joe Biden’s SAVE plan to cancel hundreds of billions of dollars in student loan debt.
Though Biden is out of office, the legal proceedings began while Biden was in the White House after the former president ordered the Department of Education to use a previously passed law to lower payments sometimes as low as zero dollars or forgive the loans outright.
The St. Louis-based 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals blocked the Department of Education’s plan under Biden, saying the former president went beyond his authority.
"The Secretary has gone well beyond this authority by designing a plan where loans are largely forgiven rather than repaid," the court ruled.
A Penn Wharton analysis of the SAVE plan estimated it could cost taxpayers about $450 billion over ten years.
Thoughts?
It’s very basic: Why should my tax dollars be used to pay for some else’s student debt?
Why is that your first question?
My tax dollars are used to pay for schools I have no kids going to.
And wars I don't support.
And roads I don't drive on.
And disaster relief I didn't use.
And congresscritters I didn't vote for.
Citizens don't get to designate specifically which programs and functions their personal tax goes to. Programs should be evaluated on whether or not they work for the common good or for a specific group for which other resources are not available. I don't know if the SAVE plan meets those criteria, but there is an argument that says large numbers of people released from some student debt would benefit the economy as a whole because they will have more money to spend on products and services as well as fundamental essentials.
Goddamn, not another perpetual victim. Don't we have enough of that? Hey, Jasmine, how much do you think you stand to gain by trump and Elon "working" for you? Let me know if you notice any change for the better in your situation. Also, lst me know if you've been personally harmed by what you voted for. Thannks
It’s very basic: Why should my tax dollars be used to pay for some else’s student debt?
What O Really says. IF it's true that student debt relief is a net benefit to the economy while promoting a better educated populace, then I support it. Remember, students in most other developed democracies pay a fraction of the cost for higher education that our students do.
Sounds like the court decided a different issue, though. Did Joe have the authority or was it something Congress needed to do or not? Idk enough about the law to answer that question, but the Appeals Court ruling bodes well for our hopes to resist the POTUS Musk/PINO EOs and usurpation of authority that go far far beyond Joe's action.
I agree that there should be limits on executive action even if I'm not informed enough to know exactly where the line should be.
I'd like to hear from our resident MAGAt on this. SoupySales, does your unwavering support for the POTUS Musk/PINO actions mean that you think Joe DID have the unilateral authority to cancel student debt, and if not why not?
“The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvelous victory.”
-- Howard Zinn, 2004
1312. ETTD
Goddamn, not another perpetual victim. Don't we have enough of that? Hey, Jasmine, how much do you think you stand to gain by trump and Elon "working" for you? Let me know if you notice any change for the better in your situation. Also, lst me know if you've been personally harmed by what you voted for. Thannks
Jasmine is con, but ftr I'm not sure that she is a Trumpette.
Jasmine, do you want to clear this up for us?
“The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvelous victory.”
-- Howard Zinn, 2004
1312. ETTD
Why is that your first question?
My tax dollars are used to pay for schools I have no kids going to.
And wars I don't support.
And roads I don't drive on.
And disaster relief I didn't use.
And congresscritters I didn't vote for.
Citizens don't get to designate specifically which programs and functions their personal tax goes to. Programs should be evaluated on whether or not they work for the common good or for a specific group for which other resources are not available. I don't know if the SAVE plan meets those criteria, but there is an argument that says large numbers of people released from some student debt would benefit the economy as a whole because they will have more money to spend on products and services as well as fundamental essentials.
Well, of course they would have more money. But my question remains: Why should I pay for the student debts of others. Other people work hard to pay their debts off. Why can’t these people?
Goddamn, not another perpetual victim. Don't we have enough of that? Hey, Jasmine, how much do you think you stand to gain by trump and Elon "working" for you? Let me know if you notice any change for the better in your situation. Also, lst me know if you've been personally harmed by what you voted for. Thannks
Jasmine is con, but ftr I'm not sure that she is a Trumpette.
Jasmine, do you want to clear this up for us?
What is your definition of a Trumpette?
I happen to agree with a lot of his policies and campaign platform. I don’t like him as a human being, nor did I vote for him in 2024.
Jasmine is con, but ftr I'm not sure that she is a Trumpette.
Jasmine, do you want to clear this up for us?
What is your definition of a Trumpette?
I happen to agree with a lot of his policies and campaign platform. I don’t like him as a human being, nor did I vote for him in 2024.
Since the election is over it sounds to me like you are a Trumpette by all practical measures, but it's really up to you to decide. Either you are with fascist MAGA or you are with the resistance. There was no middle ground in 1933 and there is no middle ground now.
“The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvelous victory.”
-- Howard Zinn, 2004
1312. ETTD
... don't know if the SAVE plan meets those criteria, but there is an argument that says large numbers of people released from some student debt would benefit the economy as a whole because they will have more money to spend on products and services as well as fundamental essentials.
Well, of course they would have more money. But my question remains: Why should I pay for the student debts of others. Other people work hard to pay their debts off. Why can’t these people?
O Really answered you and so did I - potential benefit to "the economy as a whole". People are discouraged from pursuing higher education because of the prospect of crushing debt or grads are limited for years or decades by that crushing debt - taking soul-defeating corporate jobs rather than doing public service work, teacher shortages everywhere, MDs forced to limit appointments to 15 minutes, etc.
Government is supposed to work for the common good, not to satisfy your sense of "justice" or mine.
“The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvelous victory.”
-- Howard Zinn, 2004
1312. ETTD
... don't know if the SAVE plan meets those criteria, but there is an argument that says large numbers of people released from some student debt would benefit the economy as a whole because they will have more money to spend on products and services as well as fundamental essentials.
Well, of course they would have more money. But my question remains: Why should I pay for the student debts of others. Other people work hard to pay their debts off. Why can’t these people?
O Really answered you and so did I - potential benefit to "the economy as a whole". People are discouraged from pursuing higher education because of the prospect of crushing debt or grads are limited for years or decades by that crushing debt - taking soul-defeating corporate jobs rather than doing public service work, teacher shortages everywhere, MDs forced to limit appointments to 15 minutes, etc.
Government is supposed to work for the common good, not to satisfy your sense of "justice" or mine.
Should the government pay everyone’s personal debts, too?
... Government is supposed to work for the common good, not to satisfy your sense of "justice" or mine.
Should the government pay everyone’s personal debts, too?
Again, you're stuck on your own "morality". IF, IF someone can persuade me that canceling everyone’s personal debts is beneficial to the economy, then I support it. Did I say IF?
Ftr, personal debt can be accrued many different ways, some laudable some not. Otoh, society pretty much has a consensus that higher education is good for America. So, you're trying to compare apples and oranges.
“The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvelous victory.”
-- Howard Zinn, 2004
1312. ETTD
Ok I'll try again. All tax money is spent on goods or services that not everybody will directly benefit from. If you choose not to use national parks, you don't get a tax discount. If you choose to go to a national park every day of the year, your tax doesn't increase. Your question may be fun, but it's not relevant. The real question is do we as a society actually get our collective money's worth or not. I don't know.
Add to it that college ridiculously unaffordable compared to the rest of the world just as health care is.
The average blended cost for tuition and housing is $30,000 a year with wide differences in in state, out of state and private.
Most students come out with something between a ten year car payment or a ten year mortgage payment with no car and no house and poor prospects unless they know somebody.
They'll mostly have to start at the bottom and work their way up and cannot afford rent much less home ownership.
Eamus Catuli~AC 000000000101010202020303010304 020405....Ahhhh, forget it, it's gonna be a while.
A U.S. appeals court killed President Joe Biden’s SAVE plan to cancel hundreds of billions of dollars in student loan debt.
Though Biden is out of office, the legal proceedings began while Biden was in the White House after the former president ordered the Department of Education to use a previously passed law to lower payments sometimes as low as zero dollars or forgive the loans outright.
The St. Louis-based 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals blocked the Department of Education’s plan under Biden, saying the former president went beyond his authority.
"The Secretary has gone well beyond this authority by designing a plan where loans are largely forgiven rather than repaid," the court ruled.
A Penn Wharton analysis of the SAVE plan estimated it could cost taxpayers about $450 billion over ten years.
Thoughts?
It’s very basic: Why should my tax dollars be used to pay for some else’s student debt?
Very simple isn't it Jasmine? The majority of voters agreed with your thinking. The rest of this thread is just a bunch of sour grapes by a bunch of leftists.
Very simple isn't it Jasmine? The majority of voters agreed with your thinking. The rest of this thread is just a bunch of sour grapes by a bunch of leftists.
That very simpleminded LIE again? "The majority of voters" did not support your idol, 1.5% DonOLD, and few voters on either side of the issue placed student loan debt at the top of their agendas. You MAGAts just can help yourselves. Pitiful.
Now, instead of being so stupid why don't you try addressing the points made "by a bunch of leftists"? Oh, that's right, you're not competent enough to even try, so you substitute this cultish bleating.
“The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvelous victory.”
-- Howard Zinn, 2004
1312. ETTD
Very simple isn't it Jasmine? The majority of voters agreed with your thinking. The rest of this thread is just a bunch of sour grapes by a bunch of leftists.
That very simpleminded LIE again? "The majority of voters" did not support your idol, 1.5% DonOLD, and few voters on either side of the issue placed student loan debt at the top of their agendas. You MAGAts just can help yourselves. Pitiful.
Now, instead of being so stupid why don't you try addressing the points made "by a bunch of leftists"? Oh, that's right, you're not competent enough to even try, so you substitute this cultish bleating.
It is OK for you to label anyone who supports Trump a cultist. I choose leftist to label you guys.
That very simpleminded LIE again? "The majority of voters" did not support your idol, 1.5% DonOLD, and few voters on either side of the issue placed student loan debt at the top of their agendas. You MAGAts just can help yourselves. Pitiful.
Desperate LIE cowered from, as usual.
Now, instead of being so stupid why don't you try addressing the points made "by a bunch of leftists"?
Oh, that's right, you're not competent enough to even try, so you substitute this cultish bleating.
Point proved.
“The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvelous victory.”
-- Howard Zinn, 2004
1312. ETTD
That very simpleminded LIE again? "The majority of voters" did not support your idol, 1.5% DonOLD, and few voters on either side of the issue placed student loan debt at the top of their agendas. You MAGAts just can help yourselves. Pitiful.
Desperate LIE cowered from, as usual.
Now, instead of being so stupid why don't you try addressing the points made "by a bunch of leftists"?
I am crushed Vrede desires to call me a cultist. I'll describe myself as a supporter.
It does seem to bother you. Otherwise, why mention it twice in just this thread? Good.
Anyhow, works for me "supporter":
“The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvelous victory.”
-- Howard Zinn, 2004
1312. ETTD
