Lowering The Bar

[Wneglia]

When they are through screwing with standards, perhaps they can ban homework, like they are proposing in France, because of the unfair advantage it gives kids who get help from parents.

[Stinger]

It is parenting, parenting, parenting. Income, neighborhoods, parental education, are all symptomatic of being a good parent. And, good parents have good students.

It is affluence and education, affluence and education, affluence and education.

So a parent with an eighth-grade education can educate his child just as effectively as a parent with a PhD can educate his?

A parent who can barely afford to take his kid to the library can educate his child just as well as a parent who can afford hundreds of books and DVDs and computer access?

We've already been over this, but you're too stuck in your ideology to let common sense take a foothold.

Correlation does not prove cause and effect. Correlation only proves commonality.

Denial does not change facts. Your correlation meme is BS. This has been studied in great detail by minds far more knowledgeable and intelligent than yours. Yet you, who have nothing other than your ideology -- reasoned in ignorance -- posit your opinion as superior to reams of research.

You are truly laughable.

It is the exceptions that prove the cause.

No, it isn't. There are always exceptions. I thought you knew something about statistics. The differences within a group are always greater than the differences between groups.

Look at the good student from the poor home; the good student from the bad neighborhood; the good student from the uneducated parents. That is where you will find the cause. Then verify that with the reverse. Look at all the low scoring students from high income, good neighborhoods, highly educated parents.

And you prove nothing. The differences within groups are always greater than the differences between groups. Apples and oranges. That's just what you cling to to justify your ideology.

That is how you separate correlation from cause and effect. You must identify the "special cause." Which you haven't done. You just jumped blindly, based on your blind bias. The special cause of good students is good parenting.

Bullshit. Not when all parents aren't equal and don't have equal access to modern amenities.

I can put you or me in a NASCAR race car and put Tony Martin in a smart car, and unless you or I screw up and wreck, we'll kick Tony Martin's a** every time.

You can abandon all pretenses of common sense and deny all the research and facts you want, but you don't change reality.

[Wneglia]

"It is affluence and education"X3

Affluence can also be a handicap.

[Stinger]

"It is affluence and education"X3

Affluence can also be a handicap.

Anecdotally-inspired opinion doesn't alter that data -- the education gap between poor and affluent is growing. The have-mores are using their wealth to create a larger educational divide. I don't blame them, but it's happening.

Meanwhile, the uninformed simply mark it off to race and poor parenting.

[Wneglia]

"It is affluence and education"X3

Affluence can also be a handicap.

Anecdotally-inspired opinion doesn't alter that data -- the education gap between poor and affluent is growing. The have-mores are using their wealth to create a larger educational divide. I don't blame them, but it's happening.

Meanwhile, the uninformed simply mark it off to race and poor parenting.

Poor parenting can occur in affluent families.

[gongoozler]

Perhaps the expectations were set a bit too high.

[Tertius]

All study the Montessori Method of Early Childhood Education. It does not take money it takes parental disciplin to follow the system.

Up to age seven a child's mind is like a sponge. Expose it to phonics and a child will read. Be alert to what the child is interested make it positive and available and the child will learn.

The system is proven.

[O Really]

All study the Montessori Method of Early Childhood Education. It does not take money it takes parental disciplin to follow the system.

Up to age seven a child's mind is like a sponge. Expose it to phonics and a child will read. Be alert to what the child is interested make it positive and available and the child will learn.

The system is proven.

No argument with the system. How do you propose to get all parents to do that? Specifics, please.

[O Really]

When they are through screwing with standards, perhaps they can ban homework, like they are proposing in France, because of the unfair advantage it gives kids who get help from parents.

So, Doc, if you found that blacks or asians were statistically more likely to get certain types of cancers or that blacks responded better or worse to certain treatments, would your using that data to try to prevent or to treat their cancer be "racist"?

Would it affect your treatment plan if you knew that for a given protocol, 70% of blacks recover while 90% of asians do?

If you advertise baggy pants in black communities and less so in white communities, are you being racist or simply taking advantage of market demand?

[Wneglia]

When they are through screwing with standards, perhaps they can ban homework, like they are proposing in France, because of the unfair advantage it gives kids who get help from parents.

So, Doc, if you found that blacks or asians were statistically more likely to get certain types of cancers or that blacks responded better or worse to certain treatments, would your using that data to try to prevent or to treat their cancer be "racist"?

Would it affect your treatment plan if you knew that for a given protocol, 70% of blacks recover while 90% of asians do?

If you advertise baggy pants in black communities and less so in white communities, are you being racist or simply taking advantage of market demand?

Medical dogma for many years implied that poorer outcomes for black women with breast cancer was due to inferior treatment, limited access, implicit racism, etc. We now know that breast cancer in blacks is genetically different and more aggressive than in whites. This has led to some modification of treament protocols, that are not necessarily race based, but aggressiveness based. It just works out that more black women fall into this category.

Likewise a study several decades ago showed that black men who smoked tended to have a much more aggressive prostate cancer than non-smoking black men. There are many nuances in oncology, and treatments are trending toward individualization. I predict in 10 years treatment protocols will be unique for a given patient, based upon genetic findings.

[O Really]

There are many nuances in oncology, and treatments are trending toward individualization.

Wouldn't it be nice if the schools caught on to that idea?

[Wneglia]

Pass the Chocolate

[Stinger]

All study the Montessori Method of Early Childhood Education. It does not take money it takes parental disciplin to follow the system.

Up to age seven a child's mind is like a sponge. Expose it to phonics and a child will read. Be alert to what the child is interested make it positive and available and the child will learn.

The system is proven.

ROTFLMAO!!!! Nothing is proven except your obstinacy.

Gap between blacks and whites shrinking. Gap between poor and affluent growing.

[Tertius]

All study the Montessori Method of Early Childhood Education. It does not take money it takes parental disciplin to follow the system.

Up to age seven a child's mind is like a sponge. Expose it to phonics and a child will read. Be alert to what the child is interested make it positive and available and the child will learn.

The system is proven.

No argument with the system. How do you propose to get all parents to do that? Specifics, please.

Read, read, read_
Read a biography or two about Mariea Montessori. You should understand how to start regardless of how poor you are. The method is based on children learn by doing. Children love to do. Children can do more than they are given credit for. I will discuss the method but I cannot take the time to explain what a biography will say.

[Stinger]

Read, read, read_
Read a biography or two about Mariea Montessori.

So your "proof" that parenting and affirmative action are the prime culprits in lagging test scores is a biography? Your dismissal of numerous studies showing affluence and parental-education levels as the strongest indicators of a child's success is a biography?

Really?

My daughter attended a Montessori school for seven years. I went to college with one of her teachers. I have a very good friend who owns a Montessori school. They do a great job, but they don't work miracles. Those who went in ahead came out ahead. Those who went in behind came out behind.

My daughter now attends an International Baccalaureate high school program. I have taken some of her friends home after volleyball practice, two to very poor neighborhoods, and one to Section 8 housing known locally as Sugar Hill. Not the kind of place you expect to find scholars, much less IB students. The biggest difference between these kids and their neighbors can be attributed to the educational level of the parents.

Montessori might do a better job, but the public will never fund it . . . and it still won't close the gap.