Wingnutties out of control!

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Roland Deschain
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

Unread post by Roland Deschain »

Boatrocker wrote:There. Fixed it for you.
The only thing needing fixed is you...so you can not spread your stupid gene any further. My brother-in-law's account is not in the press, neither is my babysitters, or my mother's, so you just keep thinking it is all "in the press" and be sure to keep your head firmly planted in your ass. At this point reality would push you over the edge. :---P

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Boatrocker
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

Unread post by Boatrocker »

Roland Deschain wrote:
Boatrocker wrote:There. Fixed it for you.
The only thing needing fixed is you...so you can not spread your stupid gene any further. My brother-in-law's account is not in the press, neither is my babysitters, or my mother's, so you just keep thinking it is all "in the press" and be sure to keep your head firmly planted in your ass. At this point reality would push you over the edge. :---P
I'm thinking it's in your head.
People are crazy and times are strange. I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range.
I used to care, but, things have changed.

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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

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Boatrocker
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

Unread post by Boatrocker »

Yeah. Batshit crazy is congenital and hereditary.
People are crazy and times are strange. I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range.
I used to care, but, things have changed.

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rstrong
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

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rstrong
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

Unread post by rstrong »

Boatrocker wrote:Yeah. Batshit crazy is congenital and hereditary.
No it isn't.
- Rand Paul

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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

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VA GOP Candidate Warns That Yoga Leads to Satan

Boy... these guys are just coming out of every crack.

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rstrong
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

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rstrong
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

Unread post by rstrong »

Perhaps I should have reserved the "Imminent Swirling Vortex of Damnation" title for a thread about the next Republican convention.

I followed the link at the bottom, leading to the Tea Party Leadership Fund. "Breaking News! Sarah Palin leads the way in a potential U.S. Senate run!" Presumably the candidates she's running against are moderate and/or rational.

:lol:

I'm tempted to give them a donation. (Especially with their notice that "Contributions from foreign nationals or entities are prohibited.")

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neoplacebo
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

Unread post by neoplacebo »

rstrong wrote:
Perhaps I should have reserved the "Imminent Swirling Vortex of Damnation" title for a thread about the next Republican convention.

I followed the link at the bottom, leading to the Tea Party Leadership Fund. "Breaking News! Sarah Palin leads the way in a potential U.S. Senate run!" Presumably the candidates she's running against are moderate and/or rational.

:lol:

I'm tempted to give them a donation. (Especially with their notice that "Contributions from foreign nationals or entities are prohibited.")
Go for it....I suggest five dollars Canadian and an appropriate note.

Cannonpointer
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

Unread post by Cannonpointer »

The Teaparty must do this for its survival. The die is cast.

But let us reason together. I am not a fan of the teaparty... BUT...

The republican party does CLEARLY need a makeover. It DOESN'T serve its base. It HAS become a big spending party, misrepresenting fiscal conservatives. There DOES need to be a conservative party, to represent that faction of our society. http://blueridgedebate.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=999

So, my question: What WOULD a reasonable republican revolution look like? How DO the schismatists responsibly re-establish fiscal conservatism in their party?
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rstrong
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

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Have them draft Bill Clinton?

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Boatrocker
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

Unread post by Boatrocker »

Cannonpointer wrote: . . . So, my question: What WOULD a reasonable republican revolution look like? How DO the schismatists responsibly re-establish fiscal conservatism in their party?
- Drop the secessionist, neo-confederate bullshit.
- Drop the religious fruit-loopiness.
- Come to grips with the 21st century
- Understand that "fiscal conservatism" does not mean doing away with taxes, defunding every social program and spending like crazy on military hardware we don't need.
- Start no wars simply to satisfy the urge to buy military hardware we don't need.

There's a good start.
People are crazy and times are strange. I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range.
I used to care, but, things have changed.

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O Really
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

Unread post by O Really »

Cannonpointer wrote: The Teaparty must do this for its survival. The die is cast.

But let us reason together. I am not a fan of the teaparty... BUT...

The republican party does CLEARLY need a makeover. It DOESN'T serve its base. It HAS become a big spending party, misrepresenting fiscal conservatives. There DOES need to be a conservative party, to represent that faction of our society. http://blueridgedebate.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=999

So, my question: What WOULD a reasonable republican revolution look like? How DO the schismatists responsibly re-establish fiscal conservatism in their party?
1. Remember who "the base" is - hint: it's not the slobbering anti-abortionist racist (or culturist) homophobe.
2. Develop and present a plan on what to spend for - don't base an entire campaign on cut-cut-cut indiscriminately.
3. Don't be so blatent at expecting the lower economic groups to bear the majority burden of your re-alignment of spending priorities.
4. Recognize that times have already changed. Find and express solutions to address today's issues and move on from yesterday's.
5. Be willing to lose a few elections (that you'd probably lose anyway) to get the teapartiers scraped off your shoe.
6. Get rstrong to write your position papers on what "conservatism" is.
7. Focus on and explain clearly the fiscal plan. You can't just say "no" to everything.
8. Ignore the fringes. They may not vote for you, but they're sure as hell not going to vote for the Dems.

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rstrong
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

Unread post by rstrong »

I would define the solution on a more basic level: Reverse the switch from ideology to tactics.

Margaret Thatcher's greatest contribution to politics, and the foundation of the right’s political success over recent decades, was not ideological but tactical. She was the first politician to grasp the fact that with the decline of the old working class, it had become possible to win elections on a platform that simply ignored the wishes and needs of the poor. There weren’t as many of them as there used to be, and the poorest among them usually failed to vote at all.

This insight was key to the success of President Ronald Reagan in the United States in the 1980s, and to the triumph of conservative parties in many European countries in the same period. It continued to be a major factor in the calculations of parties both on the right and on the left: You cannot count on the poor to win an election for you.

But suddenly that changed:

In the 2008 election there was a great effort to get the poor vote out for Obama. It wasn't as successful as some hoped, but it was successful.

The Republican Party's response has been to switch even further away from it's own ideology. More extremism. More kabuki theatre. On countless issues rabidly opposing what was its own policy in the previous administration, just because Obama continued it. Tactics, not ideology.

And its rabidly fought the return of the poor voter. First using lies, smears and fake video to take down Acorn. Fighting to bring back Jim Crow. Passing so-called "voter fraud" laws to end what was historically just one or two cases of fraud, and in doing so disenfranchising thousands of poor voters. With the Republican leaders and the Fox arm of the party shaking their pom-poms the whole way.

It's used tactics - fear mongering - over ideology to hang on to its one loyal demographic, the elderly. Tactics that turned away younger voters, where ideology would not have. Though they may claim otherwise, their endless anti-women claims and even laws in the last election cycle had little to do with conservative ideology.

You want to fix the problem? Conservatives and traditional Republicans need to define and promote just what their basic ideology is. And tell the Palin / Cruz / Limbaugh / Beck / Bachmann types "No, YOU are Republican In Name Only."

And find a way to reign in Fox News. Because tactics and extremists make for better headlines than ideology, so they'll promote Palin / Cruz / Limbaugh / Beck / Bachmann's views every time.

bannination
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

Unread post by bannination »

http://imgur.com/afo3wT3


Conservative Political Forum caught censoring again :> It showed up in the news feed, the thread at CPF is obviously gone now. I would have like to read the rest of the comment though!

:mrgreen:

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Boatrocker
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

Unread post by Boatrocker »

Boatrocker wrote:
Cannonpointer wrote: . . . So, my question: What WOULD a reasonable republican revolution look like? How DO the schismatists responsibly re-establish fiscal conservatism in their party?
I would also add that they should devote some study to the concept of irony, if only so it could lead them to an actual understanding of hypocrisy. Then, perhaps, they could either:
- stop all the pompous breast-beating about limited government, less regulation and more freedom even as they promulgate laws that add layer upon layer of restrictions on Americans' personal liberty, usually in the name of silly shit like religion or "tradition."
- or actually stop worrying about what other free, consenting adults do on their own time, on their own property, and get the hell out of reproductive issues, which are the concern of a woman and her doctor and no one else.

That's a good question you asked. It's pointless, unless we can unearth some actual conservatives and help them regain their rightful place in political discourse and policy making, but it's still a good question.

And we've been offering these answers all along.
People are crazy and times are strange. I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range.
I used to care, but, things have changed.

Cannonpointer
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

Unread post by Cannonpointer »

rstrong wrote:I would define the solution on a more basic level: Reverse the switch from ideology to tactics.

Margaret Thatcher's greatest contribution to politics, and the foundation of the right’s political success over recent decades, was not ideological but tactical. She was the first politician to grasp the fact that with the decline of the old working class, it had become possible to win elections on a platform that simply ignored the wishes and needs of the poor. There weren’t as many of them as there used to be, and the poorest among them usually failed to vote at all.

This insight was key to the success of President Ronald Reagan in the United States in the 1980s, and to the triumph of conservative parties in many European countries in the same period. It continued to be a major factor in the calculations of parties both on the right and on the left: You cannot count on the poor to win an election for you.

But suddenly that changed:

In the 2008 election there was a great effort to get the poor vote out for Obama. It wasn't as successful as some hoped, but it was successful.

The Republican Party's response has been to switch even further away from it's own ideology. More extremism. More kabuki theatre. On countless issues rabidly opposing what was its own policy in the previous administration, just because Obama continued it. Tactics, not ideology.

And its rabidly fought the return of the poor voter. First using lies, smears and fake video to take down Acorn. Fighting to bring back Jim Crow. Passing so-called "voter fraud" laws to end what was historically just one or two cases of fraud, and in doing so disenfranchising thousands of poor voters. With the Republican leaders and the Fox arm of the party shaking their pom-poms the whole way.

It's used tactics - fear mongering - over ideology to hang on to its one loyal demographic, the elderly. Tactics that turned away younger voters, where ideology would not have. Though they may claim otherwise, their endless anti-women claims and even laws in the last election cycle had little to do with conservative ideology.

You want to fix the problem? Conservatives and traditional Republicans need to define and promote just what their basic ideology is. And tell the Palin / Cruz / Limbaugh / Beck / Bachmann types "No, YOU are Republican In Name Only."

And find a way to reign in Fox News. Because tactics and extremists make for better headlines than ideology, so they'll promote Palin / Cruz / Limbaugh / Beck / Bachmann's views every time.
Reagan tripled the debt. Was that in service to tactics, or ideology?

Reagan deregulated willy nilly, with no thought to consequence. Just look at the msm, entirely owned by 6 multinational megacorps. Before Reagan deregulated drunkenly, there were many thousands of small owners - creating more diversity and less top-down control.

Is that a reflection of conservative ideology?

Look at the world of finance. Before Reagan, every city had its own local bank, which was responsible to behave in a VERY conservative manner with investor monies. After Reagan, there are 8 or 10 banks in this country, and they are "too big to fail," and they behave like teenagers with the checkbook.

Does that reflect conservative ideology?

Look at our legal system, with attorneys trolling 1-800 numbers to START disputes, rather than settling existing ones.

Does that reflect conservative ideology?

Define it, THEN argue for it.
_________________________________________________________________________________

A burglar can only steal what you have.
A banker can steal what you have, and what you're GONNA have.

Cannonpointer
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Re: Wingnutties out of control!

Unread post by Cannonpointer »

Boatrocker wrote: That's a good question you asked. It's pointless, unless we can unearth some actual conservatives and help them regain their rightful place in political discourse and policy making, but it's still a good question.
Precisely.

And a nation without a healthy liberal movement to move us forward and a healthy conservative movement to keep us grounded is a sick and endangered nation. BOTH of our major parties are over-run with progressives. TO THE DEGREE that we even HAVE any conservative movement, the democrats are filling the void by holding the fort against the repubs' insane tort reform ideas - as well as a few other choice insanities they prattle about - such as their assault on the 10th amendment marketed under the trade name, "buying insurance across state lines" (as if we don't already do that, unless we live in Connecticut).
_________________________________________________________________________________

A burglar can only steal what you have.
A banker can steal what you have, and what you're GONNA have.

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