The LEO thread

[neoplacebo]

I don't know about the "showing off" but I'm pretty sure some of them do it because they can. Fortunately, a lot of places are instructing their cops not to engage in high-speed chase for anything but actual dangerous criminals. A tourist was killed in Asheville a week or so ago while being chased by cops - for a traffic infraction of some sort, maybe speeding.

When I see a deputy sheriff, city police officer, or state police officer speeding without lights or siren, I always try to fall in behind him and just keep pace; this is generally easy to do, as most drivers automatically slow down or even put on some brakes anytime they see a cop car. I have done this at least a dozen times over the past years and only one time did one of them (a city cop from Hendersonville) take any notice of me. He pulled into the shoulder of I-26E to let me go by and then proceeded to follow ME. Needless to say, subsequent to this, neither of us were speeding. Nothing happened in this situation other than him probably running my tag number to see if he could get me on anything. However, I was quite prepared to confront him, as I believe he must have figured out. The whole experience is like being able to siphon off a little power or something.....it's hard to explain, but I recommend it.

[O Really]

I'm not a supporter of minimum sentencing, but I am in favor of sentencing guidelines. If a judge wants to hand down a sentence outside the guidelines, s/he can, but, should state a reason for doing so. If I were making the rules, I'd probably keep some mandatory sentence for really heinous violent crime, but drop them from most everything else.

[bannination]

After a Florida Highway Patrol Officer ticketed a Miami cop for driving in excess of 120MPH on his way to an off-duty job, she was relentlessly harassed by other officers, including finding out that her driver's license info had been accessed by 88 officers from 25 agencies over three months.

Sure seems to put the whole in most cops are honest and trying to make a positive difference.


Access information anywhere else like that and it's automatic termination.... cops... ha!

[O Really]

...A judge is expected to rule on the law enforcement agency and officers' motions to dismiss in the coming weeks, which will determine whether the lawsuit continues...

I can't find an update anywhere since the 2/14 flurry of articles, hmmm.

The speeder (Lopez) pled no contest and was sentenced to some community service and $3,500. He was subsequently fired. As to the civil harassment suit by Watts, it has apparently been sitting around without movement on any side. I'm sure the Herald, that covered the issue well at the time will let us know if anything happens.

[JTA]

We may never know for sure but this version, backed up in part by other witnesses and the deceased's history, sounds more credible than what the cops are saying.

Eyewitness to Michael Brown shooting recounts his friend’s death

Sucks that a bunch of opportunistic criminals took advantage of the situation for their own selfish ends and looted a bunch of shops.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow ... story.html

[JTA]

Supposedly, last night's demo. was peaceful until the cops broke it up with violence.

Whatever, rioting is predictable with a wrong shoot, improper death notice to the family, leaving the body in the street for 4 1/2 hours and insufficient public information. Knowing this, the cops are as responsible as the "bunch of opportunistic criminals".

Gonna have to disagree with you on this one Vrede.

Looting shops doesn't exactly make you a law abiding citizen any more than gunning down a defenseless kid does. Killing some kid is way worse, but that doesn't mean it's ok to loot a bunch of shops. Some assholes took advantage of the situation when another asshole killed some kid.

Besides, what did those shops have to do with that kid getting shot? Did the cop own all of those shops or something?

A family member of mine recently was robbed. I'm pretty outraged. Think I'll go rob or beat up some random person on the street because outrage is an expected result of being robbed. Nevermind, scratch that, I won't because I'm not an opportunistic criminal.

Props to the kids family and other people asking for people to remain calm. Those are people to be respected.

[O Really]

Governor vows change in Ferguson police response

You know that the cops have really screwed up when even the Governor says so publicly.

Yeah, especially since he's not up for election til 2016.

[JTA]

[O Really]

Not exactly Andy and Barney, is it? Not even Longmire.
Hell, it's not even Dirty Harry.

[bannination]

I just seen that posted to another site. Pretty crazy. Definitely not Andy Griffith.

[neoplacebo]

When did this become this? About two weeks after 9-11-01 is when it started; you can thank the fear mongering and general angst of the idiots running the show back then. Shazaam! / Saddam

[neoplacebo]

I think 9/11 was a steroid injection but I'd place the start at the War on Drugs.

True for sure but after 9/11 it was like a steroid injection with a side shot of suspicion and paranoia. All kinds of podunk police and sheriff departments got the fucking dream of their lifetimes with all these military grade weapons and vehicles. It was a dream come true. I guess our only consolation is that if our money wasn't spent on this stuff, it would be spent in some other incomprehensible way. Hands up

[neoplacebo]

Even the end of the Iraq War and the winding down of the Afghan War has contributed. Barney Fife is getting M-16s and APCs for free.

Uhh, I don't think Barney has enough pockets for those sort of weapons; he'll be a nervous wreck.

[bannination]

Rand Paul: We Must Demilitarize the Police. "There should be a difference between a police response and a military response."

Even a nutjob gets something right every once in a while.

[Mr.B]

It's too bad there's not a video of that night's incident. Cops are saying that the cop that shot the kid suffered injuries from the kid trying to whip up on him.

"All kinds of podunk police and sheriff departments got the.....dream of their lifetimes with all these military grade weapons and vehicles."

"Barney Fife is getting M-16s and APCs for free."

Wonder why that is? Reckon it's because that before the availability of this weaponry, police were going to a gunfight with a pocket-knife? Remember the bank robbery shoot-out in LA a few years ago? The cops had shotguns and handguns going up against modified automatic weapons.

The North Hollywood shootout was an armed confrontation between two heavily armed and armored bank robbers and officers of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) in the North Hollywood district of Los Angeles on February 28, 1997. Both robbers were killed, eleven police officers and seven civilians were injured, and numerous vehicles and other property were damaged or destroyed by the nearly 2,000 rounds of ammunition fired by the robbers and police.

At 9:17 AM, Larry Phillips, Jr. and Emil Mătăsăreanu entered and robbed the North Hollywood Bank of America branch. Phillips and Mătăsăreanu were confronted by LAPD officers when they exited the bank and a shootout between the officers and robbers ensued. The two robbers attempted to flee the scene, Phillips on foot and Mătăsăreanu in their getaway vehicle, while continuing to engage the officers. The shootout continued onto a residential street adjacent to the bank until Phillips was mortally wounded, including by a self-inflicted gunshot wound; Mătăsăreanu was killed by officers three blocks away. Phillips and Mătăsăreanu are believed to have robbed at least two other banks using virtually identical methods by taking control of the entire bank and firing automatic weapons chambered in intermediate cartridges for control and entry past 'bullet-proof' security doors, and are possible suspects in two armored vehicle robberies.

Local patrol officers at the time were typically armed with their standard issue 9 mm or .38 Special pistols, with some having a 12-gauge shotgun available in their cars. Phillips and Mătăsăreanu carried illegally modified fully automatic Norinco Type 56 S-1s, a Bushmaster XM15 Dissipator, and a HK-91 rifle with high capacity drum magazines and ammunition capable of penetrating vehicles and police Kevlar vests. The bank robbers wore body armor which successfully deflected bullets and shotgun shells fired by the responding patrolmen. SWAT eventually arrived bearing sufficient firepower, and they commandeered an armored truck to evacuate the wounded. Several officers also appropriated AR-15 rifles from a nearby firearms dealer. The incident sparked debate on the need for patrol officers to upgrade their capabilities in similar situations in the future.

Due to the large number of injuries, rounds fired, weapons used, and overall length of the shootout, it is regarded as one of the longest and bloodiest events in American police history. (Wikipedia)

Today, even with all their artillery, most police departments are still out-gunned.

[O Really]

It's too bad there's not a video of that night's incident. Cops are saying that the cop that shot the kid suffered injuries from the kid trying to whip up on him.

.

Maybe so. But that's not the point. If you check on the circumstances an officer is authorized to use lethal force - probably even in Ferguson MO - you won't likely find "unarmed kid trying to whip up on you" being on the list. A lot of cops carry a variety of non-lethal hardware, including tasers, pepper spray, batons, etc. The purpose for those things is to be able to subdue a belligerent suspect without shooting him.

As to the cops being out-gunned, you haven't ever heard me complaining about the equipment provided to police, but you have heard me supporting providing the best equipment and training available. You have heard me complain loudly and sharply criticize hot-head yahoos who think just because they have some good equipment that they need to use it on every opportunity.

[O Really]

Vrede's right again - it was mostly the poorly named and worse conceived "war on drugs" that started the beefing up of police weaponry - at least according to this recent Newsweek article... http://www.newsweek.com/how-americas-po ... ram-264537

But I've got a few questions regarding the petition and its position. If a cop can have a vest (and they all do and have for years, saving many injuries and lives), why can't they have "military grade" armor? Particularly in places where they really are likely to get shot at? If a police unit can have a "mobile command center" why couldn't it be a MRAP? Is it so awful to tuck cops safely away in an armored vehicle while the evildoer is shooting at them with her lighter? Or her .22? If they weren't skeered for their lives, maybe they'd exercise a little more patience? If they're sitting outside an active hostage location being shot at, is it so awful that they sit in an armored vehicle instead of crouching behind their cruiser? I'd agree the ordinary patrol officer doesn't need to be, dress like, or pretend to be a member of a SWAT unit, but I disagree that police departments don't need a SWAT unit. I'll bet the fire departments have a lot of great gear they don't use for every little brush fire, too. I think the problem is not in the equipment (or even the uniforms), but in the culture of many police units which is no longer "serve and protect." They've developed a "shoot first" mentality, and a major attitude. Remember, most of the shootings aren't with the high-tech weaponry.
Here's an interesting article about unarmed black guys getting shot by police... http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... -black-men
I doubt few if any of these instances would have been different if the police departments hadn't had military type weaponry.

[O Really]

I think it would be easier to restrict the technology than it would be to make cops better people.

.

May be, but taking the easier approach doesn't always solve the problem, and sometimes makes it worse. I don't think you have to make (most) cops better people. I think you have to change the culture in the cop shop. That only requires a city council with balls (real or figurative) and a new Chief. The remaining cops who don't want to adapt will "self-deport." Taking Ferguson as an example, how do you suppose a police force in a 73% black city got a 98% white police force? Leadership - from the council on down. They are either responsible or irresponsible. Of course, the city was 29% black as recently as 1990, so clearly there have been some drastic demo changes. On the other hand, of the six Council members, only one is black, so maybe the residents have voted in their own misery.

BTW, Ferguson is proud to announce on its website that it has been named "Playful City USA" for the fourth year in a row. Nice pics of fountains, clean streets, and a fire truck letting kids play in the spray. I'm thinking the web tech probably doesn't live there.
http://www.fergusoncity.com/

[O Really]

There are 1,282 (9.8%)black people who live in Hendersonville? Where?

[O Really]

Oh, all it takes is "a city council with balls" (elected by frightened 'law and order' Americans) "and a new Chief" (better despite having spent his career in the cop culture). That should be easy.

.

Politics is indeed part of the problem. City Council types don't want to have to run for re-election with the cops actively opposing them, particularly if the cops are union, and particularly if it's over something the cops can get the fire fighters to join them in. On the other hand, nobody - nobody - likes cops run amock and in those places where there is a real and recent incident (like the Asheville evidence room or the Trayvon Martin cover-up), there is an opportunity to make real changes. Taking away the toys won't make any difference in the behaviour of bad cops. There were bad cops, evil Sheriffs, and "thin blue line" cover-ups long before there were armored vehicles and a "militarized" police force. For a fun educational event, watch "The Big Easy" again. Not exactly fiction, if you've ever spent time in N'awlins. Or for less fun, look at the history of the Birmingham police.