Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

[Seth Milner]

I remember that. Israel smacked the piss out of Egypt and Egypt decided they had bitten off more than they could chew. I was just a young scudder then. 1967

What's scary nowadays though, thanks to the Internet, these young, bored punks all over the world think they're going to fulfill their fantasies by joining an organization that wantonly kills on a whim and they're going to be invincible. Therefore, these threats are right here in our own backyard.
Your neighbor's kid could be building bombs in his basement with instructions gotten off the Internet, and he/she's planning to have his/her name go into the history books.

[Vrede too]

Is it really scarier? We've had terrorism my entire life, the vast majority being young white male (often Christian) cons, explosive ingredients are more difficult to acquire, and they mostly use plentiful guns, anyhow.

[k9nanny]

'Tis true. Grunts are fighting for their own lives and those of their mates. Not for some ideology or political strategy. That's why apologists can say they are honoring their ancestors who were "fighting to protect their homes" and not for slavery. True on an individual basis, fershure. But why were they there in the first place? Why was their home at risk? Why were they being invaded? That would be because of some hot-head slavers who wanted to protect the inhumane driver of their economy. Of course, most fighters in the Civil War didn't own slaves, nor had a significant dog in the slavery fight. But that doesn't mean the war wasn't over the retention of slavery. People just got sucked in - forced to pick a side. Look at the Shelton Laurel Massacre, as an example. The leaders of the insurrection should have been rejected and hanged.

Exactly.
Maybe "honor" isn't the right word. Hell, even in Nazi Germany, the dead soldiers were mourned by mothers, wives, children. Wonder how many of Hitler's troops were in a foxhole because they personally wanted to eradicate Jews.

If I remember my history, lots of folks here in the mountains had to protect their property, including salt and gardens, from hungry deserters and marauders from both sides. There are also stories of wealthy Charlstonians burying their valuables 'round these parts, but I've never located anything. You mentioned Shelton Laurel, and my memory is kicking in. I did a lot of studying on my own; I don't have a clue what they taught us in school.

Regardless, I'm sick of all the "war wasn't over slavery" crap. I want to box the ears of all the idiots screeching, "flags don't kill; people kill." Then we have all the dumbasses howling about losing their rights. Bull pucky.

[Seth Milner]

I'm sure the ones who claim "flags don't kill; people kill" would, in turn like to cauliflower a few ears themselves on those who in turn screech about the Confederate flag being a symbol of slavery. This is what I've been attempting to portray all along; that this flag flap is nothing more than pissing & moaning from people of differing opinions, and political showmanship. Anyway, what's done is done; now there's no more hate, everyone will be joining hands and singing, no more Dylnn Roofs waving a flag as a symbol of hatred, and we'll all live happily ever after

Vrede too calls it the slaver flag, however, I cannot find any information anywhere identifying any slave owner of that era that flew the flag denoting that he/she was a slave owner. Perhaps Vrede too could link us to a credible source? Inquiring minds want to know. :-0?>

[Vrede too]

Ummm, you've been told over and over that getting rid of government displays of the slaver flag is a near term beginning point, not any kind of ultimate resolution. Why are you so foolish as to repeatedly create the lame strawman that anyone, anyone has suggested otherwise?

Now you're so desperate to defend your apathetic, symbolism-ignorant position that you're claiming that the war wasn't over slavery, despite the secession declarations saying explicitly that it was, while you blithely ignore that it's been the intentional banner of modern racism for 60 years. Of course, this puts you somewhere to the racist right of SC's elected TP wingnuts. That's kind of pitiful.

Since as a transplant you've washed your hands of any responsibility for SC government choices, Pontius, I've asked you whether you ever lifted a finger against Idaho's Aryan Nations. You've pretended the question wasn't asked, so let's expand it. Assuming you weren't an Aryan Nations member, have you ever done anything to oppose racism? Or, are you just another old white guy that would rather just delude yourself that it doesn't exist because it makes you uncomfortable to face reality?

[O Really]

The symbolism of the battle flag of Northern Virginia isn't as simple as "hate" vs. "heritage." Nevertheless, I'd like to ask any of the "heritage" people to define exactly what part of their "heritage" does that flag represent that does not include anything about the Civil War.

[Seth Milner]

Ummm, you've been told over and over that getting rid of government displays of the slaver flag is a near term beginning point, not any kind of ultimate resolution. Why are you so foolish as to repeatedly create the lame strawman that anyone, anyone has suggested otherwise?
No, I said it was political showmanship. Governor Haley refused to do anything about the flag in past years, and suddenly it was the popular thing to do. You know, you are to this forum what Rush Limbaugh is to talk radio. He has this "shut the hell up and listen to me because I'm the one who's right here" attitude, and you're next in line to replace him when he croaks.

Now you're so desperate to defend your apathetic, symbolism-ignorant position that you're claiming that the war wasn't over slavery, despite the secession declarations saying explicitly that it was, while you blithely ignore that it's been the intentional banner of modern racism for 60 years. Of course, this puts you somewhere to the racist right of SC's elected TP wingnuts. That's kind of pitiful.
Desperate? Hardly. I've said all along that this pissing contest is just that; I care less one way or the other; still don't. Regardless what ignorant factions used the flag for, it's still the flag of the Confederacy, and it wasn't flown by slave owners to tell the world that they owned slaves, as in the notion you so fervently cling to.

Since as a transplant you've washed your hands of any responsibility for SC government choices, Pontius, I've asked you whether you ever lifted a finger against Idaho's Aryan Nations. You've pretended the question wasn't asked, so let's expand it. Assuming you weren't an Aryan Nations member, have you ever done anything to oppose racism? Or, are you just another old white guy that would rather just delude yourself that it doesn't exist because it makes you uncomfortable to face reality?
What I know or care less to know about the Aryan Nations can be put on the head of a straight pin. Because I'm from Idaho does not make me an expert on their pitiful existence; it is not required curriculum in our schools. I can't believe that because I'm from Idaho, you'd throw that in my face as a pitiful argument. Inasmuch as I am not an activist that has to jump on every cause under the sun that puts a wrinkle in my undies, I am not/was not ever involved with racists, homosexuals, snail darters, hoot owls, leaf burnings, fossil fuels, etc. And yes, I am a (getting older) white guy that has served my time in the labor force, and we are now sitting back and enjoying our retirement and laughing at all the least little piece of b.s. that gets people standing on their heads. You can have at it; fuss and fume all you like; I'll sit back and watch and laugh.

[Seth Milner]

The symbolism of the battle flag of Northern Virginia isn't as simple as "hate" vs. "heritage." Nevertheless, I'd like to ask any of the "heritage" people to define exactly what part of their "heritage" does that flag represent that does not include anything about the Civil War.

I doubt you'd get a clear-cut answer. Most view it as heritage because of ancestors who died fighting under that flag.

[Vrede too]

Ummm, you've been told over and over that getting rid of government displays of the slaver flag is a near term beginning point, not any kind of ultimate resolution.

Point ducked. We've been here before, that's how you are.

Why are you so foolish as to repeatedly create the lame strawman that anyone, anyone has suggested otherwise?

No, I said it was political showmanship. Governor Haley refused to do anything about the flag in past years, and suddenly it was the popular thing to do. You know, you are to this forum what Rush Limbaugh is to talk radio. He has this "shut the hell up and listen to me because I'm the one who's right here" attitude, and you're next in line to replace him when he croaks.

Oh quit whining, you're the one that chose to mention me in your post. That gets you a response, as does your Rush-like repetition of untenable facts, creation of lame strawmen and lousy logic. On your, cold, slaver flag defending planet all those who are grieving for the 9 killed in Charleston, including the families, can be reduced to "pissing & moaning ... and political showmanship."

Now you're so desperate to defend your apathetic, symbolism-ignorant position that you're claiming that the war wasn't over slavery, despite the secession declarations saying explicitly that it was, while you blithely ignore that it's been the intentional banner of modern racism for 60 years. Of course, this puts you somewhere to the racist right of SC's elected TP wingnuts. That's kind of pitiful.

Desperate? Hardly. I've said all along that this pissing contest is just that; I care less one way or the other; still don't.

Do you really think anyone believes that you'd spend so much time attacking those who want government displays of the slaver flag to cease if you don't care? Wow.

Regardless what ignorant factions used the flag for, it's still the flag of the Confederacy, and it wasn't flown by slave owners to tell the world that they owned slaves, as in the notion you so fervently cling to.

That's just dumb. It was flown by armies fighting for the states that said slavery was their reason for seceding. Try to make sense. Your ducking of "intentional banner of modern racism for 60 years" is noted.

Since as a transplant you've washed your hands of any responsibility for SC government choices, Pontius, I've asked you whether you ever lifted a finger against Idaho's Aryan Nations. You've pretended the question wasn't asked, so let's expand it. Assuming you weren't an Aryan Nations member, have you ever done anything to oppose racism? Or, are you just another old white guy that would rather just delude yourself that it doesn't exist because it makes you uncomfortable to face reality?

What I know or care less to know about the Aryan Nations can be put on the head of a straight pin. Because I'm from Idaho does not make me an expert on their pitiful existence; it is not required curriculum in our schools. I can't believe that because I'm from Idaho, you'd throw that in my face as a pitiful argument. Inasmuch as I am not an activist that has to jump on every cause under the sun that puts a wrinkle in my undies, I am not/was not ever involved with racists, homosexuals, snail darters, hoot (spotted) owls, leaf burnings (?), fossil fuels, etc. And yes, I am a (getting older) white guy that has served my time in the labor force, and we are now sitting back and enjoying our retirement and laughing at all the least little piece of b.s. that gets people standing on their heads. You can have at it; fuss and fume all you like; I'll sit back and watch and laugh.

That's what I thought, thank you. Of course, no one who lived in Idaho at the time could have been oblivious to the Aryan Nations, the terrorism it spawned, the statewide response to it and the severe damage it did to Idaho's national and international reputation. It's that you've always been pretending that racism is none of your white privilege business and your claim that it's because you're a recent transplant to SC was dishonest. That your apathy always has extended to a wide range of other issues is nothing to brag about.

[Vrede too]

The symbolism of the battle flag of Northern Virginia isn't as simple as "hate" vs. "heritage." Nevertheless, I'd like to ask any of the "heritage" people to define exactly what part of their "heritage" does that flag represent that does not include anything about the Civil War.

I doubt you'd get a clear-cut answer. Most view it as heritage because of ancestors who died fighting under that flag.

As we established and you ducked after you falsely accused the slaver flag opponents of being the ignorant ones, most of the slaver flag defenders are ignorant about even the basics of the Civil War. I think O Really meant an informed and coherent definition.

[billy.pilgrim]

Appears their most important flag was a white one

[Seth Milner]

Do you really think anyone believes that you'd spend so much time attacking those....

Attack? No wonder you've been dubbed the forum lunatic. I've never seen anyone so adept at taking what someone says and rearranging what it really means, and applying differing definitions to what is meant. Not only that, but because of differing opinions, you accuse others of attacking you while you yourself go on the attack.

Firstly, I was born in Idaho; I did not grow up in Idaho. Secondly, my career took me to many states; so when I retired, I was not in Idaho when I chose SC to retire. I look at things on the practical side; I do not knee-jerk and make a big issue to draw attention at the slightest notion of something I disagree with. You've taken the Idaho factor and ran wild with it in hopes of finding some b.s. to berate me over. Forget it, pal, I'm no longer interested in "debating" with you; you are truly one disgusting, hateful, and rude individual. As I said once before, there's too many fish in this lake for me to sit around and watch you play the superior one with myself and others.

Have you applied for Rush's job yet . . . you know that old "shut the hell up and listen to me because I'm the (only) one who's right correct here" job?

[Vrede too]

Do you really think anyone believes that you'd spend so much time attacking those who want government displays of the slaver flag to cease if you don't care? Wow.

Attack? No wonder you've been dubbed the forum lunatic. I've never seen anyone so adept at taking what someone says and rearranging what it really means, and applying differing definitions to what is meant. Not only that, but because of differing opinions, you accuse others of attacking you while you yourself go on the attack.

I'm not talking about me, dummy. You either lost track or are pretending you did.

... this flag flap is nothing more than pissing & moaning from people of differing opinions, and political showmanship.

And dozens of posts just like it.

Firstly, I was born in Idaho; I did not grow up in Idaho. Secondly, my career took me to many states; so when I retired, I was not in Idaho when I chose SC to retire.

I see, this was a nonsense post in a failed attempt to make an excuse for your apathy and unwillingness to act like an SC citizen one way or the other:

... This 'heritage' cry means a lot to some, but being from Idaho, it doesn't mean anything to me; but I respect their heritage for whatever it's worth.

Figures. No one says they're from a place they didn't even grow up in, especially as an explanation for their inaction, unless they're trying to deceive.

I look at things on the practical side; I do not knee-jerk and make a big issue to draw attention at the slightest notion of something I disagree with....

Ummm, you've chosen to be the slaver flag defender here and to belittle its opponents. Why are your choices someone else's fault?

Whining about me ignored. You seem to have conveniently forgotten that your snark initiated this round. Funny that.

Point ducked. We've been here before, that's how you are.

... On your, cold, slaver flag defending planet all those who are grieving for the 9 killed in Charleston, including the families, can be reduced to "pissing & moaning ... and political showmanship."

Ducked.

Now you're so desperate to defend your apathetic, symbolism-ignorant position that you're claiming that the war wasn't over slavery, despite the secession declarations saying explicitly that it was, while you blithely ignore that it's been the intentional banner of modern racism for 60 years. Of course, this puts you somewhere to the racist right of SC's elected TP wingnuts. That's kind of pitiful.

Ducked.

Do you really think anyone believes that you'd spend so much time attacking those who want government displays of the slaver flag to cease if you don't care? Wow.

Ducked.

That's just dumb. It was flown by armies fighting for the states that said slavery was their reason for seceding. Try to make sense. Your ducking of "intentional banner of modern racism for 60 years" is noted.

Ducked.

... have you ever done anything to oppose racism? Or, are you just another old white guy that would rather just delude yourself that it doesn't exist because it makes you uncomfortable to face reality?

Ducked.

... It's that you've always been pretending that racism is none of your white privilege business and your claim that it's because you're a recent transplant to SC was dishonest. That your apathy always has extended to a wide range of other issues is nothing to brag about.

Ducked.

As we established and you ducked after you falsely accused the slaver flag opponents of being the ignorant ones, most of the slaver flag defenders are ignorant about even the basics of the Civil War. I think O Really meant an informed and coherent definition.

Ducked.

We've been here before, too.

Yep, as all your running away demonstrates, it's because my harsh-ish style is accompanied by fact, logic and reason that you ... are incapable of even trying to address. So, y'all throw a hissy fit.

... you've chosen to make your discussions with me as much about me as about the issue at hand....

Point proved, thank you. It's even become exclusively about me. Sad.

Again.

[Mr.B]

"Forget it, pal, I'm no longer interested in "debating" with you; you are truly one disgusting, hateful, and rude individual."

"Hello Seth, you've met Vrede the resident sh*thead. His avatar used to be a picture of a stinking goat wearing a f*g colored rainbow coat......Get used to his superiority complex. As for me, I call him what he is, a f*g loving, self serving arrogant stupid ass who thinks his opinions are the only ones that count. He's even blasted his cronies a few times, but they are so entwined with him, they didn't have sense enough to see he was putting them down....If you stick around, you'll be on his sh*t list before you know it."

"Look out Seth Millner, the sh*t's about to hit the fan. You done went and pissed off the greatest mind of this forum.... Now your about to discover why everyone left this poor piece of shit forum. It's dominated by an opinionated a*shole who himself is most intolerant of opposing opinions..... Everyone else already knows that Vrede doo doo is nothing but a glory-seeking fa**ot that thinks everyone should bow down to him. Bannination's got what, 9 maybe, regular posters left, and he's too stupid to see, don't really care, or is afraid to do anything about what Vrede doo-doo has done and is still doing to his forum."

How about that? Homerfobe's got a crystal ball!

I myself had a gut feeling that Seth Milner and Vrede would be butting heads; it was inevitable. From what I read into Seth's post, he's through here; Vrede has already conquered the Aryans; Vrede is a better investigative reporter, Vrede has more compassion for the down-trodden masses suffering under the affliction of a flag that was flying in S.C., you name it, Vrede's better at it, and regardless what anyone says, to hell with that too.

As for me, I'm finished here too. I've run my race, I have no further use in posting here. It's the same 'ol in every thread and subject; the only thing different is the day.

Banni, this is your cue to delete my membership and all my posts if you wish. I'm not going to message you in a PM whining and crying for you to delete me because a mean 'ole......you know.

BTW...all of your ignoring me was funny. It gave me an opportunity to express something without Vrede's hateful

Good luck Banni, You've got what, 6, 7 left?

[Sometime Lefty]

SUCCESS! (The dinosaur will be back.)

[Boatrocker]

. . . I doubt you'd get a clear-cut answer. Most view it as heritage because of ancestors who died fighting under that flag.

A view no doubt shared by a shitload of folks in Germany, who lost relatives in the service of the Fatherland.

[Seth Milner]

From what I read into Seth's post, he's through here . . . As for me, I'm finished here too. I've run my race, I have no further use in posting here. It's the same 'ol in every thread and subject; the only thing different is the day.

I'm not leaving yet; sorry to see you leave, although we've not swapped that much back and forth. You are one of the few who have a decent disposition about you, whereas the others, like the one who posted after you for instance, (SUCCESS! (The dinosaur will be back.) are overly rude and have no regard for others. Wish you the best.

[Seth Milner]

SUCCESS! (The dinosaur will be back.)

So tell us, what are you deeming to be so successful?

[Seth Milner]

Good grief. Someone left the knee-jerk gate open.

Alumnus wants NAACP to ask for a change in Byrnes Rebel nickname

What or who's next? Already the Redskins are on the chopping block; lets see, there's the Cleveland Browns, (definitely a racist name), Cleveland Indians, (should be Cleveland Native Americans), The Green Bay Packers (a slur against male homosexuals), Vancouver Canucks, (a variation of a slur to Canadians), and here's a few more via quotes:

Minnesota Vikings: “I bet there are some Scandinavian football fans out there who don’t appreciate being identified with men who raped, pillaged, and rarely bathed.”

Cleveland Indians: “The logo portraying a “red” face is obviously racist.”

Duke Blue Devils: “Surely there is a group of satanic leaders out there somewhere who are wildly offended by the color blue.”

BYU Cougars: “Last time I checked, Provo Utah isn’t famous for middle aged women prowling for young men.”

San Francisco Giants: “Clearly, this an insult to "vertically challenged" people.

Notre Dame, Fighting Irish: “Oh, so all Irish people are known for is starting bar fights before every game?

Boston Celtics: “Obviously, this name is an attack on Irish heritage and is only meant to make a profit from assuming all Irish people are associated with leprechauns and shamrocks.”

On a more serious note, forcing any of these sports teams to change their name because you’re offended is childish and irrational – not to mention likely illegal.

It would be a whole different story if: Vikings were alive today still pillaging towns, the U.S. government and Native Americans were still at war, and the San Diego Padres were somehow part of the Spanish Inquisition. But the thing is – they aren’t.

Instead, we should be recognizing the idea that names like Redskins and Patriots are ways to honor the legacy of our ancestors, not defile them.

Now that the flag of the Confederacy has been removed from open public view because it was deemed to be a symbol of racism and a reminder of slavery, it's time for America to do some real soul-searching and totally remove any name; (the above being just a few examples) from our vocabulary, any statue of persons long-dead, that would be deemed to be offensive to any group, blah, blah, blah.

Bottom line, political correctness is downright dumb and is a brainchild of the weak-minded.

[Sometime Lefty]

SUCCESS! (The dinosaur will be back.)

So tell us, what are you deeming to be so successful?

Success that most here ignored Mr B(utlicker) and he finally left. It's not because he's a dinosaur. It's not because he was an asshole. It's not because he was religious or a religious bigot. It's not because he went off the deep end a while back and his whole personality changed. I can live with all that!

But when he threatened physical violence, got a time-out, then came back, stalked Vrede, found out who he is, and threatened him with exposure. Vrede then had to take defensive measures and wipe clean his posts here. That chicken shit move was way beyond the pale from someone who claims to love Jesus. Instead of leaving, he acted like a 5 year old.

I hope you stay but I know you won't. People like you and Mr B don't like defending their views and whine when confronted. Maybe you two should find a forum where you can post about sunshine and unicorns. Or Butterflies and zebras and moonbeams and fairy tales. That's more your speed.