The homophobic thread :>

[bannination]

I think it's crappy she has to go to jail, but I don't know what the alternative could be. I think she has a martyr complex. She'll only be a real martyr if she's on the right side of history, and we all know that ain't so especially with her own history.

[O Really]

The judge rejected fines because he recognized that there could be crowd-funding and other alternatives to pay it for her. To avoid jail, I guess he could have had her flogged, but some might have objected to that, too.

[JTA]

All of that considered, I wonder what her real issue is. Clearly she's not going to win on refusal, and quitting would upend her entire life. Looks like the question is going to be "do I want a comfortable living, or not?" I'm thinking those ummm, "encouraging" her may be promising some reward. Otherwise, it would make no sense for her to give up her job.

She wants sympathizers to donate to her go fund me account she's gonna start.

[bannination]

I just hope she isn't getting paid while in jail. Citizens shouldn't have to pay that cost, along with the cost of her new housing especially when it's voluntary. I don't think she'll hold out very long.

[bannination]

All of that considered, I wonder what her real issue is. Clearly she's not going to win on refusal, and quitting would upend her entire life. Looks like the question is going to be "do I want a comfortable living, or not?" I'm thinking those ummm, "encouraging" her may be promising some reward. Otherwise, it would make no sense for her to give up her job.

She wants sympathizers to donate to her go fund me account she's gonna start.

From what I understand none of the "fund me" sites will accept money for people that have broken a law.

I think she's counting on a book deal at the end.

[O Really]

From what I understand none of the "fund me" sites will accept money for people that have broken a law.

.

I'm not sure that's right. How about the Colorado bakers? There are defense funds, etc.
But there's something here that we don't know about. I think a book and movie deal is probably pretty remote. Who cares?

[JTA]

All of that considered, I wonder what her real issue is. Clearly she's not going to win on refusal, and quitting would upend her entire life. Looks like the question is going to be "do I want a comfortable living, or not?" I'm thinking those ummm, "encouraging" her may be promising some reward. Otherwise, it would make no sense for her to give up her job.

She wants sympathizers to donate to her go fund me account she's gonna start.

From what I understand none of the "fund me" sites will accept money for people that have broken a law.

I think she's counting on a book deal at the end.

Shit man you think if I go start a business just to refuse business to black people they'll give me a book deal? I think she's on to something here. I'm not even racist cuz I have a black friend that I talked to once back in '04.

[bannination]

From what I understand none of the "fund me" sites will accept money for people that have broken a law.

.

I'm not sure that's right. How about the Colorado bakers? There are defense funds, etc.
But there's something here that we don't know about. I think a book and movie deal is probably pretty remote. Who cares?

It may not be right, but I'll stick with it for now considering if one of these companies would accept her, they already would have and we'd all be visiting it for the lol's.

[GoCubsGo]

All of that considered, I wonder what her real issue is. Clearly she's not going to win on refusal, and quitting would upend her entire life. Looks like the question is going to be "do I want a comfortable living, or not?" I'm thinking those ummm, "encouraging" her may be promising some reward. Otherwise, it would make no sense for her to give up her job.

She wants sympathizers to donate to her go fund me account she's gonna start.

From what I understand none of the "fund me" sites will accept money for people that have broken a law.

I think she's counting on a book deal at the end.

She's being held "in contempt of court", not on a criminal charge. I think the judge chose wisely, imagine the can of worms that could be opened by crowd funding (doesn't have to be gofundme) for a fine, nothing out of her pocket, more litigation for months on end, she continues her job and denying marriage licenses.......

[rstrong]

Maybe you can verify this, rstrong: I heard Canada is working on a bill that will prosecute those who harass or commit crimes specifically aimed at Muslims.

Not true.

Back in the early 2000s Canada passed some hate crime laws as a knee-jerk reaction to hate-mongers discovering the internet.

In the late 2000s the new laws had their day in court in a couple of high-profile cases, and failed to pass muster. They were trumped by freedom of speech laws, and neutered. (Yes, you can get up on stage at some un-related event, accuse the Jews of all the usual anti-Semitic wingnuttery, repeat the same claims to reporters after, and it's legally OK.)

The big RECENT issue was, as these things often are, in Quebec. The Parti Québécois, the separatist government now running the province, introduced the "Quebec Values Charter." It would prohibit public sector employees from wearing religious symbols. Naturally with an exemption for "traditional" (Christian and only Christian) symbols.

The problem wasn't Muslims. It was that nowhere near enough people are interested in separation. Their solution:

- Create an issue that would appeal to the lowest, least tolerant, common denominator.

- Devise a solution (the Charter, stripping away religious freedom) that is intolerable to Canada. Paint the other Quebec parties who reject it as anti-Quebec.

- When Canada rejects it as going against the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, paint that as Canada rejecting Quebec, and stomping on Quebecers' right to pass their own laws. Leverage that rejection to garner more votes and ultimately separation.

It's ugly politics, a tactic common in the US too. In the very issue we're talking about for example.

Muslims still impose the death penalty for homosexuality.

So do Christians. Uganda for example, at the urging of American missionaries. It's illegal and unsafe in other Christian countries like Russia. That doesn't mean that all Christians support agree with the policy, any more than all Muslims.

But yes, nominally Christian countries ARE a few decades ahead of the average Muslim country regarding human rights. Mostly, for good reason, as church influence lessened.

Do you really think that "Iran and ISIS-controlled territory does it!" should not be the basis for civil rights decisions in the US?

If that clerk in Kentucky had been a Muslim, do you think she would have landed in jail for failing to do her job because of religious anti-homosexuality beliefs?

Of course she would. But then of course she wouldn't have the big vocal parade of bigotry backing her, so she likely would have either done her job or found a new one.

MaybeAlso this, why wasn't that clerk fired to begin with? Why did that judge feel it his was his almighty duty to send her to jail, rather than have her replaced?

Because he didn't have the power to do so. Her boss should have done it.

But her boss probably didn't want to deal with the cost of a wrongful dismissal lawsuit, even though he'd almost certainly win. Nor would he want to incur the wrath of the circus that developed outside his office and the Republican party. It would put him and his family in real danger. Better to let the judicial system deal with it.

In the Supreme court ruling legalizing homosexual marriage, wasn't it also ruled that another's rights were not to be compromised in implementing this law?

Of course. Just as there are OTHER protections for OTHER rights. The problem is where one's rights infringe on the rights of others.

Fortunately there are well-established borders between them. A government worker can't refuse to serve blacks because of the "Curse of Ham." But the Mormon Church was within its rights to quote the "Curse of Ham" to deny rights to blacks within its own church back when Romney was preaching. And it still is, if it wanted.

Put it another way: Should a devout Christian payroll clerk be allowed to refuse to sign paycheques for divorcees? Including Davis, a three-time divorcee? If not, are the payroll clerk's religious rights being compromised?

[O Really]

According to Davis, ""People are calling the office all the time asking to send money," she testified. "I myself have not solicited any money."
And she might be useful for the other side... https://www.crowdrise.com/thekimdavisma ... kemennonno

[bannination]

I try to not judge anyone by their appearance..... but dat forehead...... That's darth vader style forehead.

[O Really]

Nothing wrong with judging people by their appearance. look at how hard people work to affect your opinion of their appearance.

[Vrede too]

... What if my religion specifies I must smoke a J every hour on the hour ...? ...

Your religion needs to find better weed.

[Vrede too]

... If that clerk in Kentucky had been a Muslim, do you think she would have landed in jail for failing to do her job because of religious anti-homosexuality beliefs? ...

Of course, and there would be fewer rightwing homophobic Christians defending her.
Edit: Opps, rstrong said exactly the same thing. Great minds . . . or its just that obvious.

In the Supreme court ruling legalizing homosexual marriage, wasn't it also ruled that another's rights were not to be compromised in implementing this law? It seems to me that religious freedom is being trumped by this newly-formed freedom.

There is no "religious freedom" to discriminate. That was settled 50 years ago.

[Vrede too]

According to Davis, ""People are calling the office all the time asking to send money," she testified. "I myself have not solicited any money."
And she might be useful for the other side... https://www.crowdrise.com/thekimdavisma ... kemennonno

... Not one dime from this campaign will go directly to Kim Davis. Not one cent will go to her or her legal fees. Proceeds will be used to compensate skilled and loving LGBT stylists for time, materials and travel involved in a fabulous Kim Davis makeover. Should Kim Davis rashly refuse, all proceeds, including and above and beyond $500 (because let’s face it, if you can’t fix it with $500, it’s broke beyond repair) will go directly, completely, and posthaste to Kentucky Equality Federation, which offers assistance, support and resources to LGBTs (but is in no way responsible for the content of this campaign).

[Vrede too]

Judge Won't Divorce Straight Couple Because Gay Marriage Is Legal
Makes PERFECT sense.

[Boatrocker]

Judge Won't Divorce Straight Couple Because Gay Marriage Is Legal
Makes PERFECT sense.

I have come to realize that I live in the South for 3 reasons: proximity to my children and grandchildren, the food, and the weather. But the general level of Southern idiocy and assholery are beginning to rival those of places we hold to be the accepted bastions of idiocy and assholery, but without the intensity of religious backwardness and willful, determined ignorance. I am really becoming concerned about the intellectual ability of this part of the world to tend to its own affairs.

[rstrong]

We should give her credit where credit is due:

Given her bigotry and pig-ignorant attitude towards others' rights, it's a wonder that her family tree forks at all.

[Seth Milner]

I have come to realize that I live in the South for 3 reasons: proximity to my children and grandchildren, the food, and the weather. But the general level of Southern idiocy and assholery are beginning to rival those of places we hold to be the accepted bastions of idiocy and assholery, but without the intensity of religious backwardness and willful, determined ignorance. I am really becoming concerned about the intellectual ability of this part of the world to tend to its own affairs.

I was always told that those qualities you've mentioned were brought from "up Nawth" where they are common traits, because Yankees moving south to escape all that tend to bring their attitudes with them. Obviously, it's true, old habits die hard. Of course there's always another option for you, you know.