Trump

[Seth Milner]

Looks as though rstrong has a new website and Vrede is contemplating moving in with him. Good matchup.

[Vrede too]

Noam Chomsky Predicted the Rise of Trump Six Years Ago

... For decades, Chomsky has warned of the right turn of the Democratic Party, which has, in an effort to win elections, adopted large swaths of the Republican platform and abandoned the form of liberalism that gave us the New Deal and, later, Lyndon Johnson's Great Society.

This new approach was canonized by Bill Clinton, who triumphantly declared that the "era of big government is over."

With this declaration, Clinton ushered in a new era of the Democratic Party (the so-called New Democrats), which left behind the working class and cultivated amiable relationships with corporate executives and Wall Street financiers; many of them would eventually occupy key positions in Clinton's government, and many of them emerged once more during the presidency of Barack Obama.

The philosophical bent of the New Democrats was best summarized by Charles Peters in "A Neoliberal Manifesto," in which he defines neoliberalism as an ideology perfect for those who "no longer automatically favor unions and big government or oppose the military and big business." Democrats, since Peters penned his manifesto, have far exceeded the bounds of this seemingly neutral stance.

Bill Clinton, for his part, destroyed welfare, deregulated Wall Street, worsened the growing mass incarceration crisis, and signed into law the North American Free Trade Agreement, a sweeping deal that harmed millions of workers, in the United States, Mexico, and elsewhere.

Today, President Obama, in partnership with congressional Republicans, is lobbying aggressively for the so-called Trans-Pacific Partnership, which has been deemed by critics "NAFTA on steroids." The agreement, if made the law of the land, will encompass 40% of global GDP and will grant massive companies unprecedented power.

Despite President Obama's promises of transparency, the public has been forced to rely on leaked information to glean any specifics about the deal — and, based on the information we have, the agreement is a disaster for workers and the environment and, unsurprisingly, a boon for multinational corporations.

Democrats, in short, have left the working class in the dust, often using "the excuse," as a recent New York Times editorial put it, "that they need big-money backers to succeed."

Republicans, meanwhile, as Chomsky has observed, are "dedicated with utter servility" to the interests of the wealthy, and their party, with its longing for war and denial of climate science, "is a danger to the human species."

So we are faced with a political system largely devoted to the needs of organized wealth, which leaves working people anxious, worried about the future, and, as we have seen, very angry. In essence, political elites — on both sides — have created a vacuum into which a charismatic and loudmouthed demagogue can emerge....

[O Really]

"... For decades, Chomsky has warned of the right turn of the Democratic Party, which has, in an effort to win elections, adopted large swaths of the Republican platform and abandoned the form of liberalism that gave us the New Deal and, later, Lyndon Johnson's Great Society."

Two words: George McGovern. (for whom I sweated blood and served as a county campaign coordinator in '72)

Does Noam think George would have done better in '80, trying to primary out an incumbent? Or better than Mondale, who started edging to the center in '84? Could a younger Bernie have gotten elected in '92?

I lament that the electorate has moved so far rightward, but if you don't win, you've got nothing.

[Vrede too]

There's little or no evidence "that the electorate has moved so far rightward" and it's never solely about marginal policy comparisons. Voters also care about ethics, vision and leadership, not just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

If Dems act like Republicans, we still got nothing - Shrub for 8 years, a GOP Congress, the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression, 2 endless wars, 2 Dem POTUSes that largely adopted former GOP planks, big money destroying our democracy, an ever expanding national security state stifling freedom, privacy and dissent, AGW not slowed, a return to overt racism, military spending out of control, immigration deadlock, etc.

Trump and Bernie have both demonstrated that it's possible for the non-status quo to win. There are just too many people always willing to settle for being an iota left of the rapidly rightward moving GOP.

[O Really]

Trump and Bernie have both demonstrated that it's possible for the non-status quo to win. There are just too many people always willing to settle for being an iota left of the rapidly rightward moving GOP.

Bernie's won a Senate seat in Vermont and some primaries. Trump has won some primaries and the the nomination of the Loon Party. Neither has won the Presidency. It would be perversely fun to see what would happen with them against each other, though.

[Vrede too]

"some primaries (and caucuses)" = 19 or 20 to Hillary's 23, after starting with a huge disadvantage.

The evidence we have, including in swing Florida, Ohio & Pennsylvania, is that Bernie would do better against Trump than Hillary. It's possible that will change by Nov., but there's no way to say that it would change.

General Election: Trump vs. Clinton, Clinton +5.7
General Election: Trump vs. Sanders, Sanders +13.0

There are all sorts of excellent reasons to favor Hillary, but she's electorally more comparable to George McGovern than Bernie is.

[O Really]

Today, Bernie may beat Trump more soundly than Hillary would, or maybe beat any of the other former riders of the Clown Car. But nobody has trashed Bernie yet because they don't think he will win the nomination. If he did, you can bet the oppo researchers will dig up some serious mud on the ol' "democratic socialist." It only takes one or two good items to severely weaken a candidate. Ask former leader Gary Hart about Monkey Business, or Romney if he'd like to reconsider the "47%". Nobody has culled through Bernie's voting record for times when he "was for it before he was against it." Nobody has showed the pic of John Bachtell at a Bernie fundraiser. Maybe mud wouldn't matter. Maybe it would. But Hillary has been bashed for 25 years and is battle-worthy. You know what they're going to throw at her, and you know that 90% of what they've thrown in the past has been bullshit. Trump leads off with yammering about Bill's philandering and calling her "Crooked Hillary"? Puh-leeze. The US is not the Republican primary.

[Vrede too]

You and I may rate issues highly in importance, but we're not everybody.

... Hillary has been bashed for 25 years and is battle-worthy....

Agreed, but it has hurt her, whether we think the bashing is fair and accurate or not. Trump shouldn't even be close to her.

I'm not really pushing Bernie anymore, it would take a miracle. Rather, I'm expressing concern about November. That said, I'm better for Hillary than you are. Dem complacency is a huge threat to her.

[O Really]

You and I may rate issues highly in importance, but we're not everybody.

... Hillary has been bashed for 25 years and is battle-worthy....

Agreed, but it has hurt her, whether we think the bashing is fair and accurate or not. Trump shouldn't even be close to her.

I'm not really pushing Bernie anymore, it would take a miracle. Rather, I'm expressing concern about November. That said, I'm better for Hillary than you are. Dem complacency is a huge threat to her.

Yes, the constant bashing has hurt - but it's not new and "shocking."
I absolutely agree that Dem complacency is dangerous, but I don't count myself among the complacent. I also don't consider myself easily swayed by the constant noise from media just trying to keep up some sense of excitement or horse race. Trump's got some serious demographic problems that have nothing to do with Hillary. He's got to win all of Romney's states (including NC that's currently Hillary's) and take away some big ones from Obama's wins. As to the recent Quinnipiac battleground poll, Trump could win any two of those and still lose. Trump could increase his share by 5% across the board and he'd still lose. He'd win if he could increase his share by 10% across the board from now until November, but that's only been done once ever and it took a badly botched Iranian hostage event to do that. So sure - Hillary could be indicted, or pigs could grow wings, but outside of something currently unknown, Trump's going down.

[rstrong]

I mean, he's not really going to get Mexico to pay for a wall.

Oh, really? That depends on your definition of "really", O Really.

When you hear about the US sending $Billions in aid to other countries, that aid often comes with a condition: It must be spent on goods and services from American military contractors. The taxpayers aren't subsidizing the foreign country; they're subsidizing American corporations. (Who in turn subsidize the election campaigns of those who approved the aid.)

Trump could easily get Mexico to pay for a wall in the same way.

[rstrong]

Looks as though rstrong has a new website and Vrede is contemplating moving in with him. Good matchup.

The post and image have nothing to do with LGBT issues, but that's what Seth Miller automatically thinks of.

Indicative. Very indicative.

[Vrede too]

Not only that, but Seth Milner is also so very stupid as to think that tolerant people get insulted by being called "gay" by gay-obsessed (hmmm) homophobes.

[Seth Milner]

Looks as though rstrong has a new website and Vrede is contemplating moving in with him. Good matchup.

The post and image have nothing to do with LGBT issues, but that's what Seth Miller automatically thinks of.
Indicative. Very indicative.

You're not much at understanding a joke, are you? That went well over your head, didn't it? Let me explain; I'll type slowly so it'll sink in.
You're the Canadian here, right? (am I typing too fast?) Vrede, who is definitely anti-Trump, posts a meme that suggests that a US citizen (wrongly labeled "American", as Canadians are American too) should move to Canada and find a Canadian partner to avoid "the unfathomable horror of a Trump presidency". My joke, aimed at you initially, suggests you as the originator of the meme or the website (still following? I'll slow down a bit more if I need to) and Vrede as the enthusiastic rube who thinks it's such a great idea! Of course, you both being males, well, you get the idea now? Nothing was said indicating it was an LGBT issue; that is a figment of your over-active LGBT-obsessed imagination.

Not only that, but Seth Milner is also so very stupid as to think that tolerant people get insulted by being called "gay" by gay-obsessed (hmmm) homophobes.

Who have I called "gay"? I rarely use the word, preferring "homosexual" instead; nor am I a "homophobe" or "gay obsessed". I've stated many times that I have no opinion, favorable or unfavorable on the subject of homosexuality. Nothing in my words posted as comments to that meme say anything about homosexuality. (guilty dog barks and all that ) Perhaps your "homosexual-tolerant" obsession has me confused with someone else?

[billy.pilgrim]

Donald Trump has taken on Frank Amedia of Touch Heaven Ministries in Ohio as his new “liaison for Christian policy –

Amedia, who says he is a former Jew, now identifies as an “apostle” himself.

Like other self-proclaimed apostles and prophets, Amedia claims to be able to control natural events. On Maldonado’s TBN program in 2012, Amedia claimed to have single-handedly stopped waves from the 2011 tsunami in Japan from hitting a Hawaiian island where his daughter was at the time. He boasted that the waves instead moved on to devastate another island:


See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/t ... postle-who...


The tsunami stopping is even on youtube – so there you unbelievers

[bannination]

12 Fringe Conspiracy Theories Embraced By A Man Who Might Be The Next President

Reminds me of most of the people that stopped posting to this forum.

[Seth Milner]

The mentality; oh, the mentality that spews from that camp . . .

[rstrong]

The mentality; oh, the mentality that spews from that camp . . .

Seth channels Sarah Palin again...

[Seth Milner]

Seth channels Sarah Palin again...

I didn't mean to post that meme so fast that it went over your head; it's obvious you missed why I posted it.

[rstrong]

Seth channels Sarah Palin again...

I didn't mean to post that meme so fast that it went over your head; it's obvious you missed why I posted it.

You missed all of reality with that post. But then no-one expects cognitive abilities and reasoning from a sock puppet.

[JTA]

The mentality; oh, the mentality that spews from that camp . . .

Lol, yeah i liked how the protestors were waving the Mexican flag when they were protesting Trump a few weeks ago.