Failed prohibition

[Vrede too]

An enthusiastic participant in and financial beneficiary of the utterly failed, decades-long drug prohibition asking, “who pays for this?” is a scream.

Yes, wasting massive resources on a rotten, ineffective strategy does make the drug warriors partially responsible for the OD deaths. Man-up and own it.

An enthusiastic participant in the repression of victimless behavior saying, “People are supposed to have capability of determining outcome of their own choices,” is a scream.

Funny, I’m unaware of the national and international cartels and the thousands of violent deaths caused by the relatively small black markets for guns and cigs. Also, the black market for guns is largely a result of WEAK regulation in gun happy states.

True, the utterly failed, decades-long drug prohibition has created massive corruption among LEOs. Thanks for mentioning it.

No one has said that ending drug prohibition will end ODs. Your straw man lies when you’re floundering are adorable. However, as shown in my OP, more rational nations have reduced ODs with decriminalization and harm reduction strategies. Your rejection of science and proof is a symptom of your addiction to a failed strategy.

No one in power is seriously proposing “outright banning guns” and it would be unconstitutional, anyhow. Your straw man lies when you’re floundering are adorable. However, more rational nations have drastically reduced gun deaths with strict regulation, and any decriminalized drugs will OBVIOUSLY be regulated.

“make available deadly substances that will affect people for the rest of their lives, from the fetus stage to adulthood.” - They already are, dufus. Your lifelong efforts have been impotent and pointless. What we’re discussing is reducing the damage YOU have added to the problem.

You haven’t presented any “REAL facts”. You’ve just screeched your self-serving opinion in response to the REAL, documented facts presented in my OP.

Maybe O Really does have an ex-wife, but I don't remember his ever saying so. Are you drunk this early? Anyhow, you cowered and deflected from his point that, "Most stupid life choices ... are not" criminalized. Logic much?

“Emulate Vrede much?” - That’s why O Really named me the Superstar Cultmaster. :thumbsup:

Southern states slowly embracing harm reduction to curb opioid epidemic



I've been talking about harm reduction in this forum for far longer, but Leo Lyons' old "Raid!" thread got accidentally deleted (not by me).

[O Really]

Maybe O Really does have an ex-wife, but I don't remember his ever saying so. Are you drunk this early? Anyhow, you cowered and deflected from his point that, "Most stupid life choices ... are not" criminalized. Logic much?

.

No former Lady O was ever a "stupid life choice." Life happens. People change, and sometimes die.
I do vaguely remember Leo or somebody equating wives and drugs or guns or something. Apparently didn't make a big impression.

[Vrede too]

No former Lady O was ever a "stupid life choice." Life happens. People change, and sometimes die.
I do vaguely remember Leo or somebody equating wives and drugs or guns or something. Apparently didn't make a big impression.

Sorry about that. I think you already explained. I considered deleting the passage and maybe should have, but hesitated over removing one more example of Leo Lyons being an idiot. The important point is that even Southern states are choosing harm reduction over failed prohibition.

[neoplacebo]

Yep, prohibition failed today, and tax dollars were lost - about an hour ago.

[neoplacebo]

This month marks my fifty year anniversary of participating in failed prohibition; it was 1969 and school was about to close for summer. Me and my incorrigible friends began our flirtation with everything we'd been warned against. I used to think then that hey, when guys my age are running things it will be a lot better.......things are more fucked up now than they ever have been as far as I can tell. But it's not because of me and my old incorrigible friends. We would have done a better job than this.

[O Really]

This month marks my fifty year anniversary of participating in failed prohibition; it was 1969 and school was about to close for summer. Me and my incorrigible friends began our flirtation with everything we'd been warned against. I used to think then that hey, when guys my age are running things it will be a lot better.......things are more fucked up now than they ever have been as far as I can tell. But it's not because of me and my old incorrigible friends. We would have done a better job than this.

Interesting point - I remember early-mid 70's it seemed - at least where I lived - that marijuana enforcement was getting fairly lax. Seems sometime along the way possession of a little bit was not a felony, and pretty much everybody I knew was tolerant of weed, whether or not they partook themselves. I would have bet a large farm that at least by '85 or '90 grass would have been legal everywhere. Why didn't it change? People in yours and my generation got into office and then pretended to have "not inhaled." (yeah, I know - quote out of context, video shows it wasn't serious, but still..) Others kept proclaiming it the devil's weed, like they had just been made a believer in "Reefer Madness." So instead of 10-15 years, it took over 40 and it's still technically illegal federally and in most states.

[Vrede too]

... Why didn't it change? ...

Also, "Just say no," Nancy Reagan.

Plus, it's always been more about racial repression, negating the Constitution and expanding the prison-industrial complex more than about the drugs - essentially a make work program for people like Leo Lyons.

Denver voters consider the next frontier in decriminalizing drugs: magic mushrooms

Magic mushrooms are widely available in "smart shops" in the Netherlands. Quality and safety are as ensured as possible, and society has not collapsed.

[O Really]

... Why didn't it change? ...

Also, "Just say no," Nancy Reagan.

Plus, it's always been more about racial repression, negating the Constitution and expanding the prison-industrial complex more than about the drugs - essentially a make work program for people like Leo Lyons.

Denver voters consider the next frontier in decriminalizing drugs: magic mushrooms

Magic mushrooms are widely available in "smart shops" in the Netherlands. Quality and safety are as ensured as possible, and society has not collapsed.

In the absence of any actual rational reasons, your theory seems most likely.

[Vrede too]

In the absence of any actual rational reasons, your theory seems most likely.

People might debate the original intent, but once the results I describe became clear decades ago, along with the compete lack of impact on drug abuse, the real world results became the very rational, though horrible, self-perpetuating intent.

Another factor has been the CIA and others enabling drug trafficking in order to indirectly fund bad people, but I can't say whether this drives prohibition or is just a "fortuitous" opportunity.

A last undeniable result is the creation of pushers and cartels, along with destabilizing Latin America, but that's getting into conspiracy theory territory to call it intentional.

[neoplacebo]

This month marks my fifty year anniversary of participating in failed prohibition; it was 1969 and school was about to close for summer. Me and my incorrigible friends began our flirtation with everything we'd been warned against. I used to think then that hey, when guys my age are running things it will be a lot better.......things are more fucked up now than they ever have been as far as I can tell. But it's not because of me and my old incorrigible friends. We would have done a better job than this.

Interesting point - I remember early-mid 70's it seemed - at least where I lived - that marijuana enforcement was getting fairly lax. Seems sometime along the way possession of a little bit was not a felony, and pretty much everybody I knew was tolerant of weed, whether or not they partook themselves. I would have bet a large farm that at least by '85 or '90 grass would have been legal everywhere. Why didn't it change? People in yours and my generation got into office and then pretended to have "not inhaled." (yeah, I know - quote out of context, video shows it wasn't serious, but still..) Others kept proclaiming it the devil's weed, like they had just been made a believer in "Reefer Madness." So instead of 10-15 years, it took over 40 and it's still technically illegal federally and in most states.

It is certainly interesting. I know more than a few of my former incorrigible friends that have become what you might call trumpers. I am continually amazed at this and never would have guessed it would happen. One or my more formerly outrageous friends is now the owner of an insurance company and is a rabid trumper dipshit. Another is a local attorney carrying on the tradition of his father and grandfather as a paragon of Rotarian lore and myth. And one is a fucking judge, which still boggles my mind. The concept that my former partner in crime has gone completely the other way is like, metamucil. Some days it causes me to drink early and delete a bunch of emails for no reason.

[Vrede too]

Inmates including felons can vote in Maine and one other state. At one prison, which is its own precinct, more than 50% voted for POSPOTUS.

[1 CAT FAN]

Inmates including felons can vote in Maine and one other state. At one prison, which is its own precinct, more than 50% voted for POSPOTUS.

Meanwhile, Maine and Vermont remain unique in preserving voting right for prisoners — and serve as a model for states like New Jersey, where Democrats, newly in control of all three branches of government, plan to propose a bill to stop the disenfranchisement of felons and allow them to vote from behind bars. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... se-n850406

When Sen. Bernie Sanders said this week that even "terrible people" should be allowed to vote, he summed up Vermont's longstanding law on inmate voting. Vermont and Maine are the only states where people convicted of felonies never lose their right to vote — even while living behind bars — according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. The rarity of Vermont's law was on display at a CNN Democratic presidential candidate town hall on Monday evening, when a Harvard University student asked Sanders whether he believed the Boston marathon bomber or people convicted of sexual assault should have voting rights in prison.
"I think the right to vote is inherent to our democracy. Yes, even for terrible people," Sanders replied. https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/sto ... 549947002/

A majority of Americans don’t want to give imprisoned felons the right to vote. That could pose a problem for 2020 Democrats who are interested in discussing disenfranchisement — or could just reflect the relative nascence of the conversation. Though multiple politicians have been discussing voting rights for some time, Sanders brought the issue to the spotlight following his April 23 virtual town hall with CNN. Republicans such as Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) did not shy away from slamming Sanders, characterizing the idea as allowing “rapists, murderers, and terrorists to vote from prison.” https://www.vox.com/2019/5/3/18528319/p ... ht-to-vote

Do you have a link to your statement? Also, what political party do you support?

[neoplacebo]

Inmates including felons can vote in Maine and one other state. At one prison, which is its own precinct, more than 50% voted for POSPOTUS.

I would bet that if all convicted felons could vote, the majority of them would vote for trump. After all, once you're locked into a pattern of bad decisions, I think you should ride it all the way out to the end.

[Vrede too]

I would bet that if all convicted felons could vote, the majority of them would vote for trump. After all, once you're locked into a pattern of bad decisions, I think you should ride it all the way out to the end.

Plus, he's perfect for people that perpetually blame others for their own failings.

[neoplacebo]

I would bet that if all convicted felons could vote, the majority of them would vote for trump. After all, once you're locked into a pattern of bad decisions, I think you should ride it all the way out to the end.

Plus, he's perfect for people that perpetually blame others for their own failings.

I happen to know a guy here in TN who is a convicted felon; he's a rabid racist, hates blacks and Mexicans, talks about women in the context of a conquered enemy, and he would vote for trump in an instant if he could. I figure there are a lot just like him. In my own defense in this vile matter I will say that the guy I'm referring to is more correctly a friend of another guy who is also a trumper but not a felon. I only know the felon from my passing acquaintance of the other guy. I don't see either of them socially or on a regular basis. Besides, they wouldn't dig what I had to say if we ever had a serious discussion. It is kind of surreal to know folks like these two, though.

[1 CAT FAN]

Inmates including felons can vote in Maine and one other state. At one prison, which is its own precinct, more than 50% voted for POSPOTUS.

I would bet that if all convicted felons could vote, the majority of them would vote for trump. After all, once you're locked into a pattern of bad decisions, I think you should ride it all the way out to the end.

When Sen. Bernie Sanders said this week that even "terrible people" should be allowed to vote, he summed up Vermont's longstanding law on inmate voting. Vermont and Maine are the only states where people convicted of felonies never lose their right to vote — even while living behind bars — according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. The rarity of Vermont's law was on display at a CNN Democratic presidential candidate town hall on Monday evening, when a Harvard University student asked Sanders whether he believed the Boston marathon bomber or people convicted of sexual assault should have voting rights in prison.
"I think the right to vote is inherent to our democracy. Yes, even for terrible people," Sanders replied. https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/sto ... 549947002/

A majority of Americans don’t want to give imprisoned felons the right to vote. That could pose a problem for 2020 Democrats who are interested in discussing disenfranchisement — or could just reflect the relative nascence of the conversation. Though multiple politicians have been discussing voting rights for some time, Sanders brought the issue to the spotlight following his April 23 virtual town hall with CNN. Republicans such as Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) did not shy away from slamming Sanders, characterizing the idea as allowing “rapists, murderers, and terrorists to vote from prison.” https://www.vox.com/2019/5/3/18528319/p ... ht-to-vote

Can you help out Vrede, apparently he's having trouble producing a link to support his statement.

[neoplacebo]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/21/us/f ... s-law.html

[1 CAT FAN]

Oh, you have a NY Times account to view material and Vrede doesn't. Nice try Neo, do you have a credible link that non-subscribers may view?

[Vrede too]

Drug Policy Alliance:
“Although women in the United States account for less than 5% of the world’s female population, they represent nearly 30% of the world’s incarcerated women. Largely because of punitive drug laws, women— many of whom are mothers and function as the sole caregivers to their families— are now the fastest-growing segment of the U.S. prison population.”

Drug Decriminalization in Portugal: Learning from a Health and Human-Centered Approach

[neoplacebo]

Oh, you have a NY Times account to view material and Vrede doesn't. Nice try Neo, do you have a credible link that non-subscribers may view?

No, I have no NY Times account; I was able to read the story on my 13 year old Windows Vista computer. The story did say two states; Maine and either NH or VT have no restrictions on felons voting; they can vote while incarcerated. Several other states have varying levels of allowing felons to vote. Some states deny felons the vote forever. That's the gist of the article.