2020 Elections

[1 CAT FAN]

Nobody knows the trouble they've seen, but they just Need Somebody to Love.

My favorite supporter, Grace Slick said it best - "When the truth is found to be lies........don't you want Somebody to love?

Grace Slick - Nothings gonna stop us now.

[1 CAT FAN]

Independent voters aren't really all that independent, analysis says https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/politics ... index.html

[O Really]

Independent voters aren't really all that independent, analysis says https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/politics ... index.html

Hopefully the author of that article did not think s/he had made a startling or new discovery. "Independent" has long been a euphemism for "don't really care enough to pay much attention," or "don't like any of these critters so I'm going to just waste my vote." Unfortunately, that has also been the group that really has made the difference in many if not most elections. Pretty sad when the ones most alienated, (sometimes) least informed, (sometimes) least interested - the ones that can be temporarily attracted to an issue - are the ones making the determining votes.

[neoplacebo]

Independent voters aren't really all that independent, analysis says https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/politics ... index.html

Hopefully the author of that article did not think s/he had made a startling or new discovery. "Independent" has long been a euphemism for "don't really care enough to pay much attention," or "don't like any of these critters so I'm going to just waste my vote." Unfortunately, that has also been the group that really has made the difference in many if not most elections. Pretty sad when the ones most alienated, (sometimes) least informed, (sometimes) least interested - the ones that can be temporarily attracted to an issue - are the ones making the determining votes.

I've always registered Independent, both in TN and NC and I don't consider myself to be in any of the categories you mention, nor do I consider my vote to be "wasted" since my vote is counted just as any other vote would be. From recent American history, it seems to me that the least informed, most gullible voters are the GOP acolytes that believe whatever nonsense they put out. And then there's the GOP voters who will vote solely on abortion or civil rights issues or immigration issues or whatever other pet issue they have.

[O Really]

I've always registered Independent, both in TN and NC and I don't consider myself to be in any of the categories you mention, nor do I consider my vote to be "wasted" since my vote is counted just as any other vote would be. From recent American history, it seems to me that the least informed, most gullible voters are the GOP acolytes that believe whatever nonsense they put out. And then there's the GOP voters who will vote solely on abortion or civil rights issues or immigration issues or whatever other pet issue they have.

Sure - you're right, I over-generalized. And there are some advantages to registering as Independent in picking what primary to vote in. And yes, I agree with you on the "most gullible." Regarding wasted votes, I was referring mainly to those who vote for some fringe-party candidate who has no chance to win and only rarely has any impact on who does win. Or who writes in somebody because they don't like any of the candidates running. But yeah, I'm a bit biased toward party participation because that's the system we've got. I wish we had more viable parties - I wish we had more of a parliamentary system where minority parties got some voice. But we don't. We've got a mainly two-party system and only participation in those parties is going to have any effect on what's done. And sometimes not even then.

[1 CAT FAN]

While most independents vote like partisans, on average they’re slightly more likely to just stay home in November. https://www.thenation.com/article/what- ... nt-voters/

[Vrede too]

Hopefully the author of that article did not think s/he had made a startling or new discovery. "Independent" has long been a euphemism for "don't really care enough to pay much attention," or "don't like any of these critters so I'm going to just waste my vote." Unfortunately, that has also been the group that really has made the difference in many if not most elections. Pretty sad when the ones most alienated, (sometimes) least informed, (sometimes) least interested - the ones that can be temporarily attracted to an issue - are the ones making the determining votes.

I'm unaffiliated because I'm left of both militaristic, corporate beholden parties. On a practical level I fit the article's description. I used to vote my conscience - "waste my vote" in your words - more often than now, when the Dem sucked an the Repug wasn't that much worse. That's become rare now that we're so polarized and the Repugs are so very horrible.

Even though I'm not a typical independent, I'm not sure that your "don't really care enough to pay much attention ... least informed, (sometimes) least interested - the ones that can be temporarily attracted to an issue" is accurate, even for the middle of the road types. I'd want to see some comparative data on level of being informed and thoughtfulness.

[O Really]

I don't have stats on it - and I might very well be wrong. It's just my own NVH opinion based mostly on personal experience.

[Vrede too]

I don't have stats on it - and I might very well be wrong. It's just my own NVH opinion based mostly on personal experience.

Intelligence And Politics Have a Complex Relationship
The way political views relate to intelligence may depend on social context.

Left tends to be smarter than right, but whether moderates are smarter or not is more complicated. Muddled enough with the fairly easy to measure intelligence that I didn't bother looking up the other elements of what we're discussing - who's better informed on the issues, political apathy, and how this relates to joining a party or not.

[O Really]

I've already admitted a bias. And I know not all generalities apply to all individuals. But it appears to me that those who refuse to at least "lean" (regardless of legal registration) are often those who believe that both major parties are the same. And yes, I understand some people have reasons for thinking that at least in regard to some issues. But they aren't the same. And those that say they "always vote for the person, not the party" don't seem to understand that they system just doesn't work that way. Even the few official "Independents" like Bernie are able to get anything done because they caucus with one of the parties.

[1 CAT FAN]

There's Independents in the crowd too.

[neoplacebo]

What are those people gawking at? Did trump tell the truth about something?

[neoplacebo]

I've already admitted a bias. And I know not all generalities apply to all individuals. But it appears to me that those who refuse to at least "lean" (regardless of legal registration) are often those who believe that both major parties are the same. And yes, I understand some people have reasons for thinking that at least in regard to some issues. But they aren't the same. And those that say they "always vote for the person, not the party" don't seem to understand that they system just doesn't work that way. Even the few official "Independents" like Bernie are able to get anything done because they caucus with one of the parties.

I feel pretty sure you're not a Republican but if you are I urge you to abandon ship. And you're right in the sense that we only have two choices when it comes to elections. As an Independent, I cannot recall ever voting for a Republican, even in a local contest. I purposely register Independent to avoid the solicitations and pleas to send money, guns, lawyers, or other forms of succor and it's working just fine. They don't know me, and I prefer it that way. Well, my Congressional reps or their local staffs may know me from the extremely blunt and never ambiguous emails I send them.....I've considered making a trip to Phil Roe's local office and introduce myself to the staff just to find out if they know me. I would be able to tell just from their initial expressions once I tell them who I am. I haven't done so because I don't consider them worth it.

[Vrede too]

I've already admitted a bias. And I know not all generalities apply to all individuals. But it appears to me that those who refuse to at least "lean" (regardless of legal registration) are often those who believe that both major parties are the same. And yes, I understand some people have reasons for thinking that at least in regard to some issues. But they aren't the same. And those that say they "always vote for the person, not the party" don't seem to understand that they system just doesn't work that way. Even the few official "Independents" like Bernie are able to get anything done because they caucus with one of the parties.

I sure don't agree with the centrist independents. As Jim Hightower says: There's Nothing in the Middle of the Road but Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos. However, I just think they're wrong, not necessarily naive or uncaring. Plus, the point of the article is that most of us have picked a side even before knowing the candidates. I suspect that many centrist independents are what we use to call lib-mod GOP, people we could somewhat respect. They just can't stomach how far to the rightwingnut extreme Repugs have gone.

I know that cons are screeching that Dems have done the same thing to the left, but no objective policy analysis agrees with that projecting lie. Modern Repugs are the aberration. 40 years ago Bernie! and AOC could have called themselves 'liberal' with the exact same positions they hold now.

These days, I agree with neoplacebo:

... From recent American history, it seems to me that the least informed, most gullible voters are the GOP acolytes that believe whatever nonsense they put out. And then there's the GOP voters who will vote solely on abortion or civil rights issues or immigration issues or whatever other pet issue they have.

There's some science to back him up, though like most of what I googled it just looks at lib-con and doesn't examine centrists as a separate group.

Liberals Don’t Share or Believe Fake News As Much As Right-Wingers, Study Finds
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/liberals-don- ... 37137.html (article)
Polarization, Partisanship and Junk News Consumption over Social Media in the US
http://comprop.oii.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/ ... nkNews.pdf (study)

Older people, conservatives more likely to share fake news: study
https://www.yahoo.com/news/older-people ... 11480.html (article)
Less than you think: Prevalence and predictors of fake news dissemination on Facebook
http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/ ... u4586.full (study)

‘Nothing on this page is real’: How lies become truth in online America
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

[neoplacebo]

I don't know about older people being more likely to share fake news; fake news used to make me laugh, but now it just pisses me off. This reminds me of the old logic snafu in which the guy says "everything I say is a lie" and then he says "I'm not lying"

[neoplacebo]

I'm kind of surprised that O Really hasn't gigged me for suggesting he might be a Republican in my post above......I am sure he's not; maybe he's just not seen it yet.

[O Really]

I'm kind of surprised that O Really hasn't gigged me for suggesting he might be a Republican in my post above......I am sure he's not; maybe he's just not seen it yet.

I saw it - it just took a long time to stop laughing.

I've always been a Democrat, but I wasn't always so ridiculously partisan as now. And it's not that I think Democrats are perfect - Hell, they're fairly incompetent in managing elections and messaging, but the Republicans have gotten so bad on national and local levels, have made such a mess of almost everything they touch by chasing their narrow right-wing issues, that you just can't trust any Republican anywhere anytime anymore.

[neoplacebo]

I'm kind of surprised that O Really hasn't gigged me for suggesting he might be a Republican in my post above......I am sure he's not; maybe he's just not seen it yet.

I saw it - it just took a long time to stop laughing.

I've always been a Democrat, but I wasn't always so ridiculously partisan as now. And it's not that I think Democrats are perfect - Hell, they're fairly incompetent in managing elections and messaging, but the Republicans have gotten so bad on national and local levels, have made such a mess of almost everything they touch by chasing their narrow right-wing issues, that you just can't trust any Republican anywhere anytime anymore.

ok, hope your stomach isn't hurting too much from all that laughing.

[O Really]

ok, hope your stomach isn't hurting too much from all that laughing.

I almost voted for a Republican once, but was saved by not being eligible to vote. I tell the story that the one Republican I ever voted for was Spiro Agnew when he ran for Governor of Maryland, and I, along with my Democratic parents did support him but I didn't really vote for him. Would have, though, since his opponent was such a blatant segregationist/racist guy - right out of stereotype Mississippi. I also once voted for a Republican in a "non-partisan" municipal election, but back then party membership didn't matter much in handling city affairs. Shouldn't be now, either, but unfortunately it is.

[Vrede too]

I almost voted for a Republican once, but was saved by not being eligible to vote. I tell the story that the one Republican I ever voted for was Spiro Agnew when he ran for Governor of Maryland, and I, along with my Democratic parents did support him but I didn't really vote for him. Would have, though, since his opponent was such a blatant segregationist/racist guy - right out of stereotype Mississippi. I also once voted for a Republican in a "non-partisan" municipal election, but back then party membership didn't matter much in handling city affairs. Shouldn't be now, either, but unfortunately it is.

Don't beat yourself up, I've occasionally voted for a lawyer . . . then showered.

Another one:

Montana Gov. Steve Bullock Announces 2020 Presidential Run

The debates will have some polling cutoff point in order to make it to the stage. I suspect that a lot that don’t make the cut will drop out.