While y'all are bickering about guns...

[Wneglia]

Bought my wife a pistol for her birthday today. Of course I had to go through 100 rounds on the range to make sure it was OK before giving it to her. It only has a 10 round clip, so it is Feinstein approved.

[rstrong]

AR-15's are COMMONLY used for hunting a sport shooting.

Yup. And if full auto were allowed, or flame throwers, or grenade launchers, you can safely bet that someone would be explaining that they too are commonly used for sport hunting. Does anyone doubt this for even an instant?

[Wneglia]

More guns-fewer deaths

[Mad American]

AR-15's are COMMONLY used for hunting a sport shooting.

Yup. And if full auto were allowed, or flame throwers, or grenade launchers, you can safely bet that someone would be explaining that they too are commonly used for sport hunting. Does anyone doubt this for even an instant?

I'd say that is a bit of a stretch. Full autos are to difficult to keep on target, flame throwers lack range, and grenade launchers are just to messy. The fact is that the AR-15 platform has evolved into one of the most distributed sporting platforms out there and it does have it's benefits. I don't use one and prefer bolt actions most of all but I am curious as to why the huge outcry against the AR-15. It is a semi-automatic that has no internal differences with hundreds of other semi-automatic rifles.

[Wneglia]

Although they are probably not terribly accurate, as I have pointed out before, with a slide stock, which is perfectly legal, an assault rifle can easily be converted into a defacto fully automatic weapon, and with a 100 round drum magazine, one could do some serious damage. I am amazed that this accessory is not even under discussion in any gun control proposals.

[Mad American]

The slide stocks arent really practical in any real world application but they are a great novelty. If you notice most all of the videos promoting them are on guns chambered in 22LR and you can still see a more pronounced recoil. On any caliber much bigger than the 22LR the recoil becomes such that the slide stock becomes impractical, makes the gun very difficult to shoot, and EXTREMELY inaccurate! Even with as many pellets as a typical shotgun puts in the air they still have to aimed in order to be effective.

[O Really]

AR-15's are COMMONLY used for hunting a sport shooting. You have not shown any data that shows AR-15's responsible for more murders than say a Ruger SP-101. In order for your argument to hold water you need to find the data that shows the nationwide total of gun murders and then show that the AR-15 was the most used gun in those cases.
I presented vrede with a hypothetical scenario in which the AR-15 was permanently reduced to no more than a 5 shot magazine. So the same question to you...that happens....what then?

AR-15 types are NOT used in more murders. Never said they were. That would be handguns. But it doesn't take much of a search to find that when and where they are available, the AR-15 type (as well as the AK-47 in other countries) is high on the choice list for those interested in killing a bunch of people at one time.

[Mad American]

AR-15's are COMMONLY used for hunting a sport shooting. You have not shown any data that shows AR-15's responsible for more murders than say a Ruger SP-101. In order for your argument to hold water you need to find the data that shows the nationwide total of gun murders and then show that the AR-15 was the most used gun in those cases.
I presented vrede with a hypothetical scenario in which the AR-15 was permanently reduced to no more than a 5 shot magazine. So the same question to you...that happens....what then?

AR-15 types are NOT used in more murders. Never said they were. That would be handguns. But it doesn't take much of a search to find that when and where they are available, the AR-15 type (as well as the AK-47 in other countries) is high on the choice list for those interested in killing a bunch of people at one time.

OK but that is far from "commonly used". The Columbine shooters used shotguns and handguns...NO AR's. Can't help but notice that you too ducked the question about limiting AR capacity to 5 rounds.....why is that?

[JTA]

Bought my wife a pistol for her birthday today. Of course I had to go through 100 rounds on the range to make sure it was OK before giving it to her. It only has a 10 round clip, so it is Feinstein approved.

I actually just bought my first pistol on Saturday as well. Can't wait to get to the firing range!

[DooHickey]

Sure, if you have one in your hand or beside the door when you get a break-in, you're going to use it, but you could also have used a shotgun. In instances where people have successfully defended home invasions, car-jackings, street attacks, etc., there are rare (I couldn't find any, but there probably are some) instances where an AR-15 type firearm did the work, or would have done the work better. So you want to use it for target fun or hunting - fine - do you really need a 30-shot magazine?

One advantage of owning an assault-type weapon I can think of would be claiming a home invasion.

First, destroy the lock on your door to make it appear someone broke in. Then shoot the house up with your Macho-Man 330 round per second "self-defense" or "hunting" weapon, then tell the police the culprit got away. Turn in a home repair claim to your insurance company......wa-lahh! costs for home remodeling project solved. You could even put in that new doorway that wasn't there before.

Bought my wife a pistol for her birthday today. Of course I had to go through 100 rounds on the range to make sure it was OK before giving it to her. It only has a 10 round clip, so it is Feinstein approved. <br sab="765">

I actually just bought my first pistol on Saturday as well.

You actually did? Does that mean you went and pretended to buy a gun, but didn't, then went back and "actually" bought a gun? :-0?>

Just read where it was reported that the word "whatever" was voted the most obnoxious word of 2012. They should have voted on the most redundant word ever..."actually". It's amazing how many people can't start, end, or even structure a sentence without using the word.
I interviewed a young woman not long ago, and her attempts to impress me with her "educated" English skills made me want to scream. You see it all over the world now.

Now, I'm over it, carry on.

[JTA]

Sure, if you have one in your hand or beside the door when you get a break-in, you're going to use it, but you could also have used a shotgun. In instances where people have successfully defended home invasions, car-jackings, street attacks, etc., there are rare (I couldn't find any, but there probably are some) instances where an AR-15 type firearm did the work, or would have done the work better. So you want to use it for target fun or hunting - fine - do you really need a 30-shot magazine?

One advantage of owning an assault-type weapon I can think of would be claiming a home invasion.

First, destroy the lock on your door to make it appear someone broke in. Then shoot the house up with your Macho-Man 330 round per second "self-defense" or "hunting" weapon, then tell the police the culprit got away. Turn in a home repair claim to your insurance company......wa-lahh! costs for home remodeling project solved. You could even put in that new doorway that wasn't there before.

Bought my wife a pistol for her birthday today. Of course I had to go through 100 rounds on the range to make sure it was OK before giving it to her. It only has a 10 round clip, so it is Feinstein approved. <br sab="765">

I actually just bought my first pistol on Saturday as well.

You actually did? Does that mean you went and pretended to buy a gun, but didn't, then went back and "actually" bought a gun? :-0?>

Just read where it was reported that the word "whatever" was voted the most obnoxious word of 2012. They should have voted on the most redundant word ever..."actually". It's amazing how many people can't start, end, or even structure a sentence without using the word.
I interviewed a young woman not long ago, and her attempts to impress me with her "educated" English skills made me want to scream. You see it all over the world now.

Now, I'm over it, carry on.

Whatever you say.

Edit: Actually, thanks for the info. Better writing habits are never a bad thing to learn!

[Leo Lyons]

Here's a display of my favorite hunting rifles. The green one in the upper right corner is my favorite for squirrels.
The big one in the middle is my favorite for deer and coyotes. The rest, well, if you have to ask.....

[JTA]

I interviewed a young woman not long ago, and her attempts to impress me with her "educated" English skills made me want to scream. You see it all over the world now.

What type of job was she interviewing for?

[DooHickey]

What type of job was she interviewing for?

Basically, the job she was applying for, is irrelevant to this thread, actually.
I actually don't feel comfortable discussing the job she was applying for; you know, personnel matters and all that stuff basically.

That's the type of dialogue I encountered.

[Wneglia]

Interesting Stats

[O Really]

Can't help but notice that you too ducked the question about limiting AR capacity to 5 rounds.....why is that?

I didn't duck it, I ignored it. If all pretend military weapons were really limited to 5-shot capacity, I wouldn't have a problem with them, probably. Except that there would have to be some way of manufacturing them that couldn't be easily modified to accept larger magazines. I don't know enough of the engineering to know how that would be done.

[Mad American]

Can't help but notice that you too ducked the question about limiting AR capacity to 5 rounds.....why is that?

I didn't duck it, I ignored it. If all pretend military weapons were really limited to 5-shot capacity, I wouldn't have a problem with them, probably. Except that there would have to be some way of manufacturing them that couldn't be easily modified to accept larger magazines. I don't know enough of the engineering to know how that would be done.

Well are they military weapons are not? They can not be "military" and "pretend military" at the same time. Seems a lot of your friends here have been calling them "military" weapons but you have broken from the mold. However, it nice to know now that you have no problem with a gun based on it's appearance. It seems your case of heart burn stems from magazine capacity. Which is all that would need to be legislated. Ban import, sale, and manufacture of magazines over 5 rounds. I don't think an engineering fix is needed but all that would be required is a "notch and tab" on newly manufactured guns and magazines so that old magazines and guns were not interchangeable. I'm just curious what happens though when someone proficient with any firearm carries out another mass shooting when magazines are limited to 5 rounds what then?

[O Really]

Well are they military weapons are not? They can not be "military" and "pretend military" at the same time. Seems a lot of your friends here have been calling them "military" weapons but you have broken from the mold. However, it nice to know now that you have no problem with a gun based on it's appearance. It seems your case of heart burn stems from magazine capacity. Which is all that would need to be legislated. Ban import, sale, and manufacture of magazines over 5 rounds. I don't think an engineering fix is needed but all that would be required is a "notch and tab" on newly manufactured guns and magazines so that old magazines and guns were not interchangeable. I'm just curious what happens though when someone proficient with any firearm carries out another mass shooting when magazines are limited to 5 rounds what then?

I'm just going along with your view that they are "pretend" military weapons. They look like it, have some characteristics of it, increase the owners's ummm self-esteem, but aren't really the same as the ones used by the military to, as the Marines put it, find the enemy and kill him. Appearance is a selling point of those firearms. But if they really were less useful as a mass killing weapon, I wouldn't have any more objection to them than to a toy that looked like a bazooka.

But sure, a mass killer could use a weapon with a five round magazine, and probably would. Not as easy to kill 25 kids at a time though.

[rstrong]

Well are they military weapons are not? They can not be "military" and "pretend military" at the same time.

The AR-15 was first built by ArmaLite as a selective fire rifle for the United States armed forces. Because of financial problems, ArmaLite sold the AR-15 design to Colt. The select-fire AR-15 entered the US military system as the M16 rifle.

So yes, it's a military weapon. Dropping the automatic capability does not change this. Limiting the magazine to 10 rounds does not change this. But both are steps in that direction.

Attributes defined in Federal assault weapon legislation:
- Detachable magazines for fast reloading
- Collapsible stocks
- Folding stocks
- Pistol grips (on rifles)
- Bayonet mounts
- Flash suppressors
- Threaded barrels
- Barrel mounted grenade launcher mounts
- A barrel shroud
- Magazines greater than 10 rounds
- Semi-automatic functionality

[Mad American]

Appearance is a selling point of those firearms. But if they really were less useful as a mass killing weapon, I wouldn't have any more objection to them than to a toy that looked like a bazooka.

But sure, a mass killer could use a weapon with a five round magazine, and probably would. Not as easy to kill 25 kids at a time though.

TECHNOLOGY is a selling point of those firearms and technology drives the appearance. As I said earlier it is like trying to compare a Mathews Creed to a Bear Whitetail II. An average shooter can perform a magazine swap in 2 to 3 seconds, a proficient shooter in half that time. Following distance for driving is 2 seconds because it takes the brain that long to realize the car in front is stopping.....we all know the details. With that in mind a PROFESSIONAL athlete runs the 40 in about 4 seconds or 30 feet a second. So unless you are a pro athlete sitting 10 to 20 feet away from and ready to charge an active shooter once YOU realize he is empty there is no chance to charge him and stop him during a "magazine swap". Next time this happens it will not matter if the shooter has one 30 round magazine or three 10 round magazines. The results will be the same and will continue to be until such a time that you people realize that the GUN is an inanimate object, can do nothing without a PERSON operating it, and start focusing on the PEOPLE that are performing these acts.