Just for Fun

[JTA]

Not when the dropping weight is always 3 pounds heavier than the weight being lifted. Physics.

Are you a scientist?

Can Bryan Christ walk on Coors?

I can technically walk on water, although it's gotta be frozen first, so does that mean I am holy?

[neoplacebo]

Not when the dropping weight is always 3 pounds heavier than the weight being lifted. Physics.

Are you a scientist?

Can Bryan Christ walk on Coors?

I can technically walk on water, although it's gotta be frozen first, so does that mean I am holy?

I think that means you're an associate Jesus. When you can walk on water that is not frozen, you will have become clear.

[O Really]

Nobody but me noticed that the "9" turns into a "6" and then a "9" depending on the tilt? They're going to have to figure how to get the weight to increase and decrease as it goes around. Nogonnahappen.

[rstrong]

Since it's just a weight-balance thing, you could make it more efficient by removing all four weights, one of the pulleys and the belt. Just have a single pulley and nothing else.

The weight one side of the pulley balances the weight of the other.

This way you're only losing energy to the friction in one pulley's bearing and air resistance. You don't have the air resistance of the weights and belt, and the energy lost to constantly flexing the belt.

It's not even remotely perpetual motion, but there's less energy losses.

[O Really]

The numbers are not altered. Math.

Not when the dropping weight is always 3 pounds heavier than the weight being lifted. Physics.

They're not altered, they're just either a "6" or a "9" depending on where they are on the circular pulley.

[neoplacebo]

Are you sure?

I'm sure it won't work as a perpetual motion machine. Trust me.

[JTA]

We could power entire cities.

[neoplacebo]

We could power entire cities.

This is the sort of thing Nikola Tesla had in mind; the transmission of electricity through the air without transmission lines. He even started to build one of his Tesla coils in New Jersey but lost his funding. Perhaps Westinghouse and Edison had a vested interest in his failure. He died broke. I think there's something to this concept.....most textbooks about electrical engineering have the word "theory" in their titles; there are aspects of electricity that are a mystery to this day.

[JTA]

We could power entire cities.

This is the sort of thing Nikola Tesla had in mind; the transmission of electricity through the air without transmission lines. He even started to build one of his Tesla coils in New Jersey but lost his funding. Perhaps Westinghouse and Edison had a vested interest in his failure. He died broke. I think there's something to this concept.....most textbooks about electrical engineering have the word "theory" in their titles; there are aspects of electricity that are a mystery to this day.

Just like with magnets and LaserJet printers, no one is really even sure how electricity works, or more importantly, where it comes from.

[neoplacebo]

Unlike magnets, electricity will kick and burn your ass if you don't respect it. As for magnets, the US Navy has developed and will probably soon deploy electromagnetic rail guns that will propel a projectile at supersonic speed and deliver biblical justice on whatever it hits without warning.

[JTA]

Unlike magnets, electricity will kick and burn your ass if you don't respect it. As for magnets, the US Navy has developed and will probably soon deploy electromagnetic rail guns that will propel a projectile at supersonic speed and deliver biblical justice on whatever it hits without warning.

Does one need to be a black or red mage to be a manipulator of electricity? What school of sorcery must one attend?

[O Really]

Are you sure?

It's a drawing, so it could be anything. Sure, you can follow the 9 on the right around and it would continue to be a nine - but then if that's the way to read it, they're all nines and the belt would just stand still. You'd have to have some 6's or it wouldn't move. Neo is right. It doesn't work under any scenario.

[rstrong]

The nation that controls magnetism controls the universe.
- Chester Gould/Dick Tracy

[neoplacebo]

The nation that controls magnetism controls the universe.
- Chester Gould/Dick Tracy

The key to perpetual motion lies in magnetism; I am convinced of it. Magnetism is immune to friction and gravity; it's like outer space on earth. Magnetic levitation trains are a primitive example of this. Someone else will get rich over it instead of me. I hold out hope that I will someday soon be abducted by aliens who will show me how this actually works.

[rstrong]

You don't need any force - magnetism or otherwise - for perpetual motion. The problem is friction and entropy, and the use of magnetism doesn't overcome that.

The closest you'll get to perpetual motion is simply an object moving through a vacuum in space. Alas, even the vacuum of space contains hundreds or thousands of atoms of gas per square meter.

On earth the closest you'll get is a flywheel. With the most frictionless bearing you can find, and probably in a vacuum to further reduce friction. The pulley-and-weights system in the image is essentially just a flywheel. An inefficient flywheel that loses more energy to friction and to constantly flexing the belt.

Nor could you harness your almost-perpetual-motion device to do anything, since by definition that means removing energy from it.

[neoplacebo]

You don't need any force - magnetism or otherwise - for perpetual motion. The problem is friction and entropy, and the use of magnetism doesn't overcome that.

The closest you'll get to perpetual motion is simply an object moving through a vacuum in space. Alas, even the vacuum of space contains hundreds or thousands of atoms of gas per square meter.

On earth the closest you'll get is a flywheel. With the most frictionless bearing you can find, and probably in a vacuum to further reduce friction. The pulley-and-weights system in the image is essentially just a flywheel. An inefficient flywheel that loses more energy to friction and to constantly flexing the belt.

Nor could you harness your almost-perpetual-motion device to do anything, since by definition that means removing energy from it.

I'm not sure about that. If there were some intermediate magnetic force between the poles, a magnetic device could theoretically keep running without any outside force acting on it. Electric motors are just magnets that only function because electricity forces them to keep rotating between positive and negative magnetic fields....if there were another "pole" other than positive or negative it could theoretically be a perpetual motion device. The friction factor in motors is the only thing the electrical current must overcome to make the motor spin. I don't think a vacuum would be necessary but would be beneficial to the process.For example, if the maglev trains didn't have to rely on an electrical current to keep them "up" they could operate without help. Friction is not a factor in magnetism. Nor is how dense the atmosphere may be with gas particles.

[Mr.B]

Ya know......I think it's time for that Bud Lite.....without y'all!

All this techy-talk is giving me a headache! That weight and pulley thingy did me in...I did figure out that those were all sixes....didn't I?

[rstrong]

I'm not sure about that. If there were some intermediate magnetic force between the poles, a magnetic device could theoretically keep running without any outside force acting on it. Electric motors are just magnets that only function because electricity forces them to keep rotating between positive and negative magnetic fields....if there were another "pole" other than positive or negative it could theoretically be a perpetual motion device. The friction factor in motors is the only thing the electrical current must overcome to make the motor spin. I don't think a vacuum would be necessary but would be beneficial to the process.

It you're adding an electrical current to keep things spinning - even if only to counteract friction - then it's not a perpetual motion device.

Remove that, and any magnetic field is irrelevant. You're left with the rotor spinning in a container, and now it's just a matter of how fast friction slows it down.

Of course you could pump the air out of the container, remove the bearings, and use magnets to keep the spinning rotor away from the walls of the container. Now you have a very efficient flywheel, but eventually it'll slow down.

[neoplacebo]

Ya know......I think it's time for that Bud Lite.....without y'all!

All this techy-talk is giving me a headache! That weight and pulley thingy did me in...I did figure out that those were all sixes....didn't I?

Don't get excited; they could be 12's and 20's; it still wouldn't matter.

[neoplacebo]

I'm not sure about that. If there were some intermediate magnetic force between the poles, a magnetic device could theoretically keep running without any outside force acting on it. Electric motors are just magnets that only function because electricity forces them to keep rotating between positive and negative magnetic fields....if there were another "pole" other than positive or negative it could theoretically be a perpetual motion device. The friction factor in motors is the only thing the electrical current must overcome to make the motor spin. I don't think a vacuum would be necessary but would be beneficial to the process.

It you're adding an electrical current to keep things spinning - even if only to counteract friction - then it's not a perpetual motion device.

Remove that, and any magnetic field is irrelevant. You're left with the a spinning in a container, and now it's just a matter of how fast friction slows it down.

Of course you could pump the air out of the container, remove the bearings, and use magnets to keep the spinning rotor away from the walls of the container. Now you have a very efficient flywheel, but eventually it'll slow down.

Absolutely; this is why there's no perpetual motion device. I just postulate that if there were some "other" magnetic force besides positive and negative, perhaps some such thing could be workable. How it would be suspended and what the friction factors would be is something I haven't figured yet...basics first.