Big Brother is Watching You

[rstrong]

...You don't do that among partners. You don't do that among friends...

Of course we've always done it among partners and friends.

When Spycatcher was released in 1987, the uproar wasn't about spying on the Soviets. It was about MI5 spying on France, the Commonwealth conferences, etc.

Back in the 1970s - because the Canadian embassy in Moscow was better located - the NSA trained some Canadians to set up an "embassy collection" operation. Using special equipment they'd listen in on radio traffic in Moscow. Even then they had computerized equipment that could listen for specific key words.

Naturally, when they got back to Ottawa they had a look at the roof of the American embassy. All the same specialized antennas were there.

A few years later they intercepted the American ambassador's car phone, learned the American bargaining position on a multi-billion-dollar grain deal with China. That information was used to barely underbid the US and get the deal for Canada.

As Spycatcher would point out, the NSA is guilty of breaking the 11th Commandment: Thou shalt not get caught.

[O Really]

His claim is plausible, don't know if it's true.

As in "plausible deniability"?

[O Really]

It may be true that all he had were in the public disclosures, and he saved nothing with which to re-pay those in China and Russia who provided him with a warm place to tuck in. However, I find it pretty ludicrous that he sees himself as such an expert on Russian and Chinese "cybercounterintelligence" that he can assure they got nothing. If that's the case, NSA should have paid him more and let him assure nobody got into our stuff. Oh wait. That was his job, wasn't it?

[bannination]

Why the NSA's Defense of Mass Data Collection Makes No Sense

Very well written. Perhaps this logic is enough to change O'really's mind? I haven't given up yet!

Second, it's unconstitutional. The Fourth Amendment prohibits general warrants: warrants that don’t describe "the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." The sort of indiscriminate search and seizure the NSA is conducting is exactly the sort of general warrant that the Constitution forbids, in addition to it being a search by any reasonable definition of the term. The NSA has tried to secretly redefine the word "search," but it’s forgotten about the seizure part. When it collects data on all of us, it’s seizing it.

Third, this assertion leads to absurd conclusions. Mandatory cameras in bedrooms could become okay, as long as there were rules governing when the government could look at the recordings. Being required to wear a police-issued listening device 24/7 could become okay, as long as those same rules were in place. If you're uncomfortable with these notions, it's because you realize that data collection matters, regardless of whether someone looks at it.

[O Really]

Why the NSA's Defense of Mass Data Collection Makes No Sense

Very well written. Perhaps this logic is enough to change O'really's mind? I haven't given up yet!

Ummm, Homey don't think so. Practically anything can be made to seem scary or foolish by a "logical" extension into the wilds. For example, if reducing speed reduces accidents, why not have a 10mph speed limit - or mandate speed governors on all cars, or put speed bumps on interstates? If taxes are the only way to fund the government, why not tax everyone at 100% and eliminate the deficit? Sure, some people in the intelligence community can do foul things, just like some cops do foul things. But we don't outlaw cops doing cop work, do we? We address the abuses as they are discovered. I don't see collecting data from Verizon, for example, to meet the definition of "wiretap." Some agree with me, some don't. I think the value of intelligence work is greater than the dark side.

[rstrong]

Because no-one here said it yet....

Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested

Have fun storming the federal criminal justice system!

[Wneglia]

First your phone records

now your medical record?

[O Really]

Yes, we all know medical records are all maintained at the place of service and never in any database accessible to large corporations who don't necessarily have your best interest at the top of their list. And in the hands of some data holders who brought HIPAA privacy law on the heads of everyone by selling medical data for marketing and other nefarious purposes. We know medical records are never accessible to employers, who would never affect employment by that knowledge. And medical records are never passed around from law office to insurance companies while they're all trying to avoid paying your claim. I can sleep with Verizon and "NSA" working.

(Not that you and your office don't personally maintain the highest confidentiality, doc. Just sayin'.)

[rstrong]

If that's the case, NSA should have paid him more and let him assure nobody got into our stuff. Oh wait. That was his job, wasn't it?

Snowden's CIA career taught him that going through channels achieved nothing

It turns out Snowden had found a security vulnerability in their sensitive systems, which he reported through channels, got blown off for, and then kept pushing. In the end, the manager who had tried to cover up the vulnerability took revenge on Snowden by putting a black mark on his record.

Daniel Ellsberg was charged in 1971 under the Espionage Act as well as for theft and conspiracy for copying the Pentagon Papers. The trial was dismissed in 1973 after evidence of government misconduct against him, including illegal wiretapping, was introduced in court.

For the two years he was under indictment, he was free to speak to the media and at rallies and public lectures.

Today, the government actions that got the case thrown out of court are legal. Today, Snowden would not be allowed out on bail. Instead, he would be in a prison cell like Bradley Manning, incommunicado, in total isolation.

Incompetence and criminal behavior are protected. Whistle blowers are not. In fact the Supreme Court just effectively ruled that the public employees cannot be whistleblowers about anything related to their jobs.

[rstrong]

Y'know that TSA database, notorious for flagging random people as potential terrorists so that they're not allowed to fly or get singled out for thorough and invasive searches every single flight? The one that even small children find themselves on?

Flagging known to use unreliable criteria like a modern variant of the Soundex function, where Klein and Clein are different but Klein and something wildly different may return a match?

A system where, once flagged as a security risk it's notoriously impossible to get off it?

Now that information can affect your life even if you don't fly!

New York Times: Security Check Now Starts Long Before You Fly

Privacy notices for these databases note that the information may be shared with federal, state and local authorities; foreign governments; law enforcement and intelligence agencies — and in some cases, private companies for purposes unrelated to security or travel.

For instance, an update about the T.S.A.’s Transportation Security Enforcement Record System, which contains information about travelers accused of “violations or potential violations” of security regulations, warns that the records may be shared with “a debt collection agency for the purpose of debt collection.”

A recent privacy notice about PreCheck notes that fingerprints submitted by people who apply for the program will be used by the F.B.I. to check its unsolved crimes database.

If it was impossible to get your name off the list before, imagine what it's like when that information gets propagated to many separate government and corporate databases. And instead of the obvious sign that you're on the list - extra hassle every time you fly - you're instead turned down for a local government job or let go because you showed up on a list.

[Boatrocker]

Y'know that TSA database, notorious for flagging random people as potential terrorists so that they're not allowed to fly or get singled out for thorough and invasive searches every single flight? The one that even small children find themselves on?

Flagging known to use unreliable criteria like a modern variant of the Soundex function, where Klein and Clein are different but Klein and something wildly different may return a match?

A system where, once flagged as a security risk it's notoriously impossible to get off it?

Now that information can affect your life even if you don't fly!

New York Times: Security Check Now Starts Long Before You Fly

Privacy notices for these databases note that the information may be shared with federal, state and local authorities; foreign governments; law enforcement and intelligence agencies — and in some cases, private companies for purposes unrelated to security or travel.

For instance, an update about the T.S.A.’s Transportation Security Enforcement Record System, which contains information about travelers accused of “violations or potential violations” of security regulations, warns that the records may be shared with “a debt collection agency for the purpose of debt collection.”

A recent privacy notice about PreCheck notes that fingerprints submitted by people who apply for the program will be used by the F.B.I. to check its unsolved crimes database.

If it was impossible to get your name off the list before, imagine what it's like when that information gets propagated to many separate government and corporate databases. And instead of the obvious sign that you're on the list - extra hassle every time you fly - you're instead turned down for a local government job or let go because you showed up on a list.

I can't even get that Pakistani guy at that asshole collection agency to stop wrong-number dialing my cellphone, looking for someone I've never heard of.

[rstrong]

I can't even get that Pakistani guy at that asshole collection agency to stop wrong-number dialing my cellphone, looking for someone I've never heard of.

If you're sure that it's a misdial, then he probably doesn't actually know your number. Next time tell him that ____ has moved. Give him the phone number for the White House.

Or better still, give him the number for a consumer protection agency. Or the police. Or the phone company itself. Folks who can actually do something when THEY get repeated calls from a collection agency.

If you think the collection agency is calling long distance, put him on hold to run up the charges while you "look to see if there's anyone here by that name."

[Boatrocker]

I can't even get that Pakistani guy at that asshole collection agency to stop wrong-number dialing my cellphone, looking for someone I've never heard of.

If you're sure that it's a misdial, then he probably doesn't actually know your number. Next time tell him that ____ has moved. Give him the phone number for the White House.

Or better still, give him the number for a consumer protection agency. Or the police. Or the phone company itself. Folks who can actually do something when THEY get repeated calls from a collection agency.

If you think the collection agency is calling long distance, put him on hold to run up the charges while you "look to see if there's anyone here by that name."

I have an iPhone, so I just block his numbers; thing is he keeps calling from different ones.

[rstrong]

OK. He's wasting your time based on known wrong information, so feel free to waste his with more of the same.

There are phone lines where it's notoriously impossible to reach a real human being. Give him one of these numbers and tell him that _____ is now working there. Put that 45-minute-wait ACA help line to good use. Your taxes are paying for it.

[Boatrocker]

Local police dispatcher might be a good choice.

[rstrong]

Not local. Just in case he DOES know your number and turns it over to them when asked.

[O Really]

Did you know that if you look for an auto insurance quote, the company you ask can access your current coverage, the vehicles you have, the the insurer you have, and correlate that with your SSN? So any insurance company can find out who you are, what you drive, and what your driving record is within a couple of minutes? They can also access your credit rating as well as your MVR's. And you guys are worried about the NSA?

[O Really]

I worry about all assaults on privacy, but all the auto insurance company is going to do is sell me insurance or not.
.

Seriously? Your level of trust and confidence in Super-S's colleagues is amazing, considering your usual skeptical and suspicious outlook. Of course, if everyone in the insurance industry is honest and only does their job, and their security people are diligent and prevent unauthorized access and use of personal data, and they never get hacked, and they never sell or give your data to someone else, then all is peachy.

[rstrong]

I worry about all assaults on privacy, but all the auto insurance company is going to do is sell me insurance or not.
.

Seriously? Your level of trust and confidence in Super-S's colleagues is amazing, considering your usual skeptical and suspicious outlook. Of course, if everyone in the insurance industry is honest and only does their job, and their security people are diligent and prevent unauthorized access and use of personal data, and they never get hacked, and they never sell or give your data to someone else, then all is peachy.

If your insurance company has the wrong information on you, or draws the wrong conclusions based on vague information, you won't be arrested and jailed and have loaded guns pointed at you. Sometimes repeatedly because the information isn't removed from the database. You won't have invasive searches every time you travel. Or not be allowed on a plane. You won't be kidnapped and tortured with waterboarding or forced stress positions or electric cables or having your balls sliced open with razor blades.

This has all happened to innocent people in the last decade - yes, even the last two are on government record - because the US government had incorrect information.

[rstrong]

And then there's the difference in consequences. Even leaving aside the torture issue, where there are no consequences at all for those responsible.

PopeHat gives two recent examples of two people each responsible for multiple long-term false imprisonments and rapes: One of them working for the government.

PopeHat: Diffusion of Responsibility

Spoiler: The government employee was given a much, much, MUCH lighter sentence.