It's the economy, stupid.

[supesalemgr2]

If you choose to believe our military is socialist - have at it.

LOL

It totally is.

As I shared with Neo, you are free to label it as you see fit. I prefer to label our military as a very disciplined organization.

[neoplacebo]

If you choose to believe our military is socialist - have at it.

LOL

It totally is.

Notice how he can't manage to tell the truth? Instead, the military is highly disciplined.....another trait that successful socialist organizations have. That's the reason they work....discipline means that no one person or small group can control it. Discipline.

[O Really]

If you choose to believe our military is socialist - have at it.

LOL

It totally is.

As I shared with Neo, you are free to label it as you see fit. I prefer to label our military as a very disciplined organization.

Being socialist and disciplined aren't mutually exclusive, but as usual you're exercising your right to be overly broad, just as discussing ICE violations in, say, Minnesota, by saying something like "Trump has a right to secure the border".

Sure, most military units are well disciplined and, for the most part, well prepared and performing. That's because they're a long way away from the bureaucrats and clowns who run things in the Pentagon. But that discipline is in spite of, not because ridiculous decisions made by the clowns.

FWIW, I'd agree with you that a country's military is not "socialist" per se, but it does operate as a microcosm of how a true socialist government would operate except with less individual freedom in the military.

[GoCubsGo]

Sometimes it's hard to hold more than one thought at a time.

[Vrede too]

Bitch slapped!

And there goes his nutty ass leverage screaming tariffs at any country that doesn't suck his dick.

Who is Victor Schwartz? Wine Importer Who Beat Trump at the Supreme Court

Victor Schwartz, a New York wine importer, was a lead plaintiff in the Supreme Court case that struck down President Donald Trump’s sweeping global tariffs, delivering a major legal setback to one of the president’s signature economic policies.

The 6‑3 ruling found that Trump lacked the authority to impose broad import taxes under an emergency powers law, siding with small businesses that argued the tariffs were illegal and economically harmful. The decision marked a rare rebuke of Trump by a court reshaped by his own judicial appointments and immediately upended a central pillar of his economic agenda.

The case elevated Schwartz into an unexpected national spotlight, turning a small‑business owner into the face of a successful legal challenge against the White House.

"It just makes you so proud to be an American and to know that our system functions like this," Schwartz told ABC News. "That this very small business in New York City can challenge something because it is just so wrong ... that we can go to the biggest, the highest court in the land, and because we were right, we can win."

Hero!

... In its ruling, the high court concluded that Trump overstepped his authority, striking down much of the tariff framework while leaving in place duties imposed under other laws.

“The Framers did not vest any part of the taxing power in the Executive Branch,” Conservative Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for the majority.

Roberts was joined by fellow conservatives Neil Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett, both nominated to the bench by Trump. All three liberal justices also joined the majority. Conservative Justices Brett Kavanaugh, Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas dissented....

"If I could pull a metaphor from the Olympics that we're all watching now, I imagine it's like winning a gold medal," Schwartz told ABC News.

Learning Resources, an Illinois‑based educational toy company, was the other lead plaintiff in the case, arguing in Learning Resources, Inc. v. Trump that Trump’s emergency‑based tariffs unlawfully imposed new taxes that disrupted its supply chain and sharply raised costs. The company, which imports learning materials from overseas manufacturers, also challenged the tariffs on similar constitutional grounds.

Also heroes!

... At the same time, Schwartz and other importers cautioned that the decision does not bring immediate relief. The Supreme Court did not address whether companies could recover billions of dollars already paid under the tariffs, leaving that question to be resolved in lower courts. After the ruling, Trump pledged Friday to impose a new global 10 percent tariff under a law that's restricted to 150 days.

We can schedule a Dozy Don whiny tirade for late July.

[GoCubsGo]

Bitch slapped!

And there goes his nutty ass leverage screaming tariffs at any country that doesn't suck his dick.

Who is Victor Schwartz? Wine Importer Who Beat Trump at the Supreme Court

Victor Schwartz, a New York wine importer, was a lead plaintiff in the Supreme Court case that struck down President Donald Trump’s sweeping global tariffs, delivering a major legal setback to one of the president’s signature economic policies.

The 6‑3 ruling found that Trump lacked the authority to impose broad import taxes under an emergency powers law, siding with small businesses that argued the tariffs were illegal and economically harmful. The decision marked a rare rebuke of Trump by a court reshaped by his own judicial appointments and immediately upended a central pillar of his economic agenda.

The case elevated Schwartz into an unexpected national spotlight, turning a small‑business owner into the face of a successful legal challenge against the White House.

"It just makes you so proud to be an American and to know that our system functions like this," Schwartz told ABC News. "That this very small business in New York City can challenge something because it is just so wrong ... that we can go to the biggest, the highest court in the land, and because we were right, we can win."

Hero!

... In its ruling, the high court concluded that Trump overstepped his authority, striking down much of the tariff framework while leaving in place duties imposed under other laws.

“The Framers did not vest any part of the taxing power in the Executive Branch,” Conservative Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for the majority.

Roberts was joined by fellow conservatives Neil Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett, both nominated to the bench by Trump. All three liberal justices also joined the majority. Conservative Justices Brett Kavanaugh, Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas dissented....

"If I could pull a metaphor from the Olympics that we're all watching now, I imagine it's like winning a gold medal," Schwartz told ABC News.

Learning Resources, an Illinois‑based educational toy company, was the other lead plaintiff in the case, arguing in Learning Resources, Inc. v. Trump that Trump’s emergency‑based tariffs unlawfully imposed new taxes that disrupted its supply chain and sharply raised costs. The company, which imports learning materials from overseas manufacturers, also challenged the tariffs on similar constitutional grounds.

Also heroes!

... At the same time, Schwartz and other importers cautioned that the decision does not bring immediate relief. The Supreme Court did not address whether companies could recover billions of dollars already paid under the tariffs, leaving that question to be resolved in lower courts. After the ruling, Trump pledged Friday to impose a new global 10 percent tariff under a law that's restricted to 150 days.

We can schedule a Dozy Don whiny tirade for late July.

Fascists don't care about the Supremes.

Lawless.

[Vrede too]

Sometimes it's hard to hold more than one thought at a time.

Or even one thought.

SoupySales basic economics education is clearly lacking and he's too lazy to even pick up a dictionary.

socialism noun

1: any of various egalitarian economic and political theories or movements advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2 a: a system of society or of group living in which there is no private property
b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

Obviously, this applies to the military, police, fire departments, public schools, most roadwork, ICE, IHS, much of VA, etc. SoupySales has gotten the bizarre notion into his head that socialism can't apply to anything he approves of. This makes adult conversation on the topic impossible.

[supesalemgr2]

Sometimes it's hard to hold more than one thought at a time.

Or even one thought.

SoupySales basic economics education is clearly lacking and he's too lazy to even pick up a dictionary.

socialism noun

1: any of various egalitarian economic and political theories or movements advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2 a: a system of society or of group living in which there is no private property
b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

Obviously, this applies to the military, police, fire departments, public schools, most roadwork, ICE, IHS, much of VA, etc. SoupySales has gotten the bizarre notion into his head that socialism can't apply to anything he approves of. This makes adult conversation on the topic impossible.

As I stated. Feel as you are free to do. Your attempt to twist my thoughts is noted.

[GoCubsGo]

And yet the irony is not noticed when presented with facts and/or definitions as opposed to feelings or beliefs.

Hard to believe there are elements of socialism in most every government function in our every day lives.

[neoplacebo]

And yet the irony is not noticed when presented with facts and/or definitions as opposed to feelings or beliefs.

Hard to believe there are elements of socialism in most every government function in our every day lives.

That forst part reminds me of our fabulous weasel of a Speaker, who said he "feels voter fraud is happening" but he can't prove it. Having a photo ID and being a citizen didn't stop Mark Meadows and his wife from committing voter fraud. trump pardoned them for the federal election and NC never prosecuted them. MAGA

[neoplacebo]

And yet the irony is not noticed when presented with facts and/or definitions as opposed to feelings or beliefs.

Hard to believe there are elements of socialism in most every government function in our every day lives.

I forgot to mention the military has its own prisons, too. Also, I've heard that if you get a bad report from, or get kicked out of that non socialist military, it creates a significant problem for you to succeed in our capitalist society.

Not sure if this is socialism or not, but the only place I have ever worked in which sub standard performance was more or less tolerated, was the military. I have seen more than one person who would have not lasted long at a private company while I was in. My last performance review said that I was "highly recommended for retention and advancement." My rank after four years was only one step below another guy I knew who had been in almost twenty years. to some degree the military is a refuge for those who can't make it anywhere else. I suspect it was better overall when they still had the draft.

[supesalemgr2]

And yet the irony is not noticed when presented with facts and/or definitions as opposed to feelings or beliefs.

Hard to believe there are elements of socialism in most every government function in our every day lives.

I forgot to mention the military has its own prisons, too. Also, I've heard that if you get a bad report from, or get kicked out of that non socialist military, it creates a significant problem for you to succeed in our capitalist society.

Not sure if this is socialism or not, but the only place I have ever worked in which sub standard performance was more or less tolerated, was the military. I have seen more than one person who would have not lasted long at a private company while I was in. My last performance review said that I was "highly recommended for retention and advancement." My rank after four years was only one step below another guy I knew who had been in almost twenty years. to some degree the military is a refuge for those who can't make it anywhere else. I suspect it was better overall when they still had the draft.

"Not sure if this is socialism or not, but the only place I have ever worked in which sub standard performance was more or less tolerated, was the military."

That is probably true for all governmental agencies.

[neoplacebo]

And yet the irony is not noticed when presented with facts and/or definitions as opposed to feelings or beliefs.

Hard to believe there are elements of socialism in most every government function in our every day lives.

I forgot to mention the military has its own prisons, too. Also, I've heard that if you get a bad report from, or get kicked out of that non socialist military, it creates a significant problem for you to succeed in our capitalist society.

Not sure if this is socialism or not, but the only place I have ever worked in which sub standard performance was more or less tolerated, was the military. I have seen more than one person who would have not lasted long at a private company while I was in. My last performance review said that I was "highly recommended for retention and advancement." My rank after four years was only one step below another guy I knew who had been in almost twenty years. to some degree the military is a refuge for those who can't make it anywhere else. I suspect it was better overall when they still had the draft.

"Not sure if this is socialism or not, but the only place I have ever worked in which sub standard performance was more or less tolerated, was the military."

That is probably true for all governmental agencies.

I don't know how prevalent it was before 2025 but it's orders of magnitude worse now....trump has put election deniers in charge of "election integrity" boards, he's put incompetent clowns in the FBI, DHS, HHS, and other places. Former Fox News "stars" are now US attorneys, intelligence directors, Secretary of Defense.

"That is probably true for all government agencies." Why? Because Reagan said so back in 1980? That "probably true" thing also works for voter fraud, immigration, or a whole bag of other things trump and Republicans like to lie and whine about.

[Vrede too]

I don't know how prevalent it was before 2025 but it's orders of magnitude worse now....trump has put election deniers in charge of "election integrity" boards, he's put incompetent clowns in the FBI, DHS, HHS, and other places. Former Fox News "stars" are now US attorneys, intelligence directors, Secretary of Defense.

"That is probably true for all government agencies." Why? Because Reagan said so back in 1980? That "probably true" thing also works for voter fraud, immigration, or a whole bag of other things trump and Republicans like to lie and whine about.

I worked in public university jobs when I was a student and later in two ERs in government hospitals. Substandard performance was neither the norm nor tolerated in any of these jobs.

[O Really]

I suspect Supes' personal experience with governmental agencies may have been limited to places like a DMV for example, where understaffed undersourced people are having to serve way too many foul impatient customers and have become somewhat numb to the demands of the job. And DMV isn't the only example. But in years of dealing with places like EEOC, OSHA, OFCCP and Wage-Hour Division, I rarely saw incompetence or "acceptable" poor performance. In general, they're subject to a lot of oversight, second-guessing, and performance measurement. I've found that the old advice to "walk a mile" in another's shoes before criticizing them is usually a good thing.

[O Really]

Some people confuse performance of a government agency with the restraints on them because they are a public entity, not a private business. I'm not going to tell the whole tale I used to use in seminars that addressed some public/private differences, but here's the short version:
Why are governmental purchasing specifications for chocolate chip cookies 27 pages long? Because the government buys a lot of those, and getting the contract can be make or break for a cookie maker - therefore they'll do anything the can to cut their own costs and boost their chances of being the "lowest bidder." So they skimp on number of chips - need another spec line; skimp on size of chips - need another spec line; use old ingredients - need another spec line; weak flimsy packaging - need another spec line, etc. and etc. and yada. So one might ask, why can't the purchasing agent just pick some cookie providers? Because it's a public agency and "the public" must have fair chances to get the contract. Thus there must be a bidding process, that gets more complicated as bidders try to squeeze every nickel out.

So yeah, it sounds overly complex, too much red tape, too much "bureaucracy", but can you imagine the uproar if there were no detailed process and agencies just awarded contracts to whomever they wanted, including their own families? You'd have a corrupt mess - or Trump administration*.

[neoplacebo]

I don't know how prevalent it was before 2025 but it's orders of magnitude worse now....trump has put election deniers in charge of "election integrity" boards, he's put incompetent clowns in the FBI, DHS, HHS, and other places. Former Fox News "stars" are now US attorneys, intelligence directors, Secretary of Defense.

"That is probably true for all government agencies." Why? Because Reagan said so back in 1980? That "probably true" thing also works for voter fraud, immigration, or a whole bag of other things trump and Republicans like to lie and whine about.

I worked in public university jobs when I was a student and later in two ERs in government hospitals. Substandard performance was neither the norm nor tolerated in any of these jobs.

Yeah, in my personal experience, the only time I've noticed it was when I was in the navy. It's one of the reasons I got out, along with my lifelong tendency to detest bullshit. I was only in four years and after that just couldn't imagine spending a career in it. Too many variables, too much wobble.

[neoplacebo]

Some people confuse performance of a government agency with the restraints on them because they are a public entity, not a private business. I'm not going to tell the whole tale I used to use in seminars that addressed some public/private differences, but here's the short version:
Why are governmental purchasing specifications for chocolate chip cookies 27 pages long? Because the government buys a lot of those, and getting the contract can be make or break for a cookie maker - therefore they'll do anything the can to cut their own costs and boost their chances of being the "lowest bidder." So they skimp on number of chips - need another spec line; skimp on size of chips - need another spec line; use old ingredients - need another spec line; weak flimsy packaging - need another spec line, etc. and etc. and yada. So one might ask, why can't the purchasing agent just pick some cookie providers? Because it's a public agency and "the public" must have fair chances to get the contract. Thus there must be a bidding process, that gets more complicated as bidders try to squeeze every nickel out.

So yeah, it sounds overly complex, too much red tape, too much "bureaucracy", but can you imagine the uproar if there were no detailed process and agencies just awarded contracts to whomever they wanted, including their own families? You'd have a corrupt mess - or Trump administration*.

When I was in the navy I had to deal with military specification designations (MIL-SPEC) as well as federal specifications (FED-SPEC) issues. Sometimes it was a nightmare...like when having to buy boiler chemicals in a foreign country. The chemicals were common commercial things, but we had to make sure the seller was qualified to sell to the US government. Once that was established, all I had to do was type up a form called an 1149 and type the right numbers onto it, and voila, boiler chemicals. Same thing with in port electrical service at non US piers in other countries. My best time in the navy was the three months I was on the Dependants Assistance Team. All I had to do was drive a gray navy Torino station wagon from Yokosuka to the Tokyo airport and pick up navy officers and or their families and bring them back to the base. The biggest issue with all that was driving a full size US car on Japanese roads. But there were no forms or specs to fiddle with.

[GoCubsGo]

So much winning.

[GoCubsGo]

More winning.