The homophobic thread :>

[Vrede too]

Whew! The entire way from NJ to TN I was worried my mom would just toss me out the window, not wanting to have to deal with the menace she knew I was destined to be. It was a hellish nine hour trip on a bus with bad tires, a lecherous driver, and several shady passengers. I was worried the whole time but remained silent. Shit myself probably five times just to make sure they all knew I was an infant and abortion survivor. It was touch and go pretty much all the way.

But, yeah, you're right. Not everybody around here is nutso facto. Just look at me.

Republicans look to extend transgender restrictions to adults

... Missouri’s Republican Attorney General Andrew Bailey issued an emergency ruling Thursday that requires adults to receive 18 months of psychological therapy and to demonstrate “a persistent and intense pattern of gender dysphoria” before they are allowed to undergo gender-affirming care....

Prospective politicians beginning with Missouri’s GQP AG Andrew Bailey should be required to receive 18 months of psychological therapy and to demonstrate “a persistent and intense pattern of" altruistic community involvement before they are allowed to run for office.

... On Thursday, Montana’s Republican-dominated Legislature advanced a bill that would strictly define gender based on sexual organs at birth.

“In human beings, there are exactly two sexes, male and female, with two corresponding gametes,” Senate Bill 458 states. While sponsors of the legislation say it answers the need for clear definitions, opponents counter that, if passed, it will lead to discrimination and lawsuits....

[O Really]

... it will lead to discrimination and lawsuits....

[/quote]
Ya think?

[Vrede too]

... it will lead to discrimination and lawsuits....

Ya think?

They don't care. It's taxpayer money, their christofascist base is happy, and they can whine about greedy lawyers and librul judges. I am sooo proud of Montana.

[O Really]

... it will lead to discrimination and lawsuits....

Ya think?

They don't care. It's taxpayer money, their christofascist base is happy, and they can whine about greedy lawyers and librul judges. I am sooo proud of Montana.

The Chinese commies monitoring Tik Tok spying on Montanans are undoubtedly rolling on the floor.

[O Really]

Do politicians get credit for doing the right thing even if they do it for the wrong reasons? I see there are various efforts to ban transgender athletes from competing in sports for their (new) gender, mostly former men in women's' sports. Clearly this is just part of their homo/transphobic efforts to discriminate and make the lives of trans people even more miserable. But - I think it's a very reasonable rule for any people who transitioned after puberty. Transitioning doesn't take away all the inherent physical advantages males have over females in some activities. A 6'9" male basketball player isn't going to get shorter during transition. A person who, when a guy, could deadlift 400 pounds is going to lose some strength in transition, but not nearly enough to put (the new) her in an equitable competition with women. Is it reasonable in any universe that Caitlyn, former Olympic decathlete known as Bruce Jenner, who at 73 is still 6'2" and 194 pounds and in reasonable condition. Anybody find it fair that she gets to play in the club pickleball tournament against "regular" 70 year old women? Or gets to run a 10K in a class for 70 year old women? I don't. But it's really painful to have to agree with legislative people I normally consider moon-barking droolers.

[Vrede too]

Do politicians get credit for doing the right thing even if they do it for the wrong reasons? I see there are various efforts to ban transgender athletes from competing in sports for their (new) gender, mostly former men in women's' sports. Clearly this is just part of their homo/transphobic efforts to discriminate and make the lives of trans people even more miserable. But - I think it's a very reasonable rule for any people who transitioned after puberty. Transitioning doesn't take away all the inherent physical advantages males have over females in some activities. A 6'9" male basketball player isn't going to get shorter during transition. A person who, when a guy, could deadlift 400 pounds is going to lose some strength in transition, but not nearly enough to put (the new) her in an equitable competition with women. Is it reasonable in any universe that Caitlyn, former Olympic decathlete known as Bruce Jenner, who at 73 is still 6'2" and 194 pounds and in reasonable condition. Anybody find it fair that she gets to play in the club pickleball tournament against "regular" 70 year old women? Or gets to run a 10K in a class for 70 year old women? I don't. But it's really painful to have to agree with legislative people I normally consider moon-barking droolers.

I hear you.

Compromise: Trans women can compete, but they have to do so in heels.

[billy.pilgrim]

Do politicians get credit for doing the right thing even if they do it for the wrong reasons? I see there are various efforts to ban transgender athletes from competing in sports for their (new) gender, mostly former men in women's' sports. Clearly this is just part of their homo/transphobic efforts to discriminate and make the lives of trans people even more miserable. But - I think it's a very reasonable rule for any people who transitioned after puberty. Transitioning doesn't take away all the inherent physical advantages males have over females in some activities. A 6'9" male basketball player isn't going to get shorter during transition. A person who, when a guy, could deadlift 400 pounds is going to lose some strength in transition, but not nearly enough to put (the new) her in an equitable competition with women. Is it reasonable in any universe that Caitlyn, former Olympic decathlete known as Bruce Jenner, who at 73 is still 6'2" and 194 pounds and in reasonable condition. Anybody find it fair that she gets to play in the club pickleball tournament against "regular" 70 year old women? Or gets to run a 10K in a class for 70 year old women? I don't. But it's really painful to have to agree with legislative people I normally consider moon-barking droolers.

I agree, but I don't follow this closely, so maybe my take is off-base.
How do the athletic women, who just barely don't make it as a starter in college, or onto a professional team because a transgender man filled the spot due primarily to his male traits, feel about this.
Can this be carried further into "identify as" and if so can white males, who barely didn't make it into Harvard due to quotas, suddenly identify as black females?

[Vrede too]

I agree, but I don't follow this closely, so maybe my take is off-base.
How do the athletic women, who just barely don't make it as a starter in college, or onto a professional team because a transgender man filled the spot due primarily to his male traits, feel about this....

One answer, even more direct, long term harm:

Teen volleyball star injured by transgender player testifies
"I'm here for every biological female athlete behind me."

The North Carolina state legislature is considering a bill banning transgender athletes who were born male from playing on female sports teams.

Payton McNabb thinks that’s a good idea.

McNabb, a high school senior and volleyball player in Murphy, North Carolina, told a state committee hearing Thursday that she suffered serious injuries during a September match when a transgender girl spiked the ball into her face.

The incident left McNabb with a concussion and neck injury and months later she still suffers from partial paralysis on her right side, vision problems, headaches and depression.

“Due to the North Carolina High School Athletic Association policy allowing biological males to compete against biological females my life has forever been changed,” Payton McNabb, now a senior at Hiwassee Dam High School in Murphy, North Carolina, said at the the legislature hearing (via WLOS.com).

Riley Gaines, the former NCAA swimmer who has become an outspoken crusader for women’s sports rights, shared video of the play in which McNabb got injured. It is a brutal but legal spike.

OUCH!

... A number of states and school districts have passed or are considering similar legislation, which transgender advocates claim is discriminatory. In response, the Biden Administration has proposed a rule that would prohibit bans on transgender athletes. It would be included as a provision of Title IX.

Caveats:
The article doesn't really delve into contrary arguments.
High school volleyball players get injured all the time.
We can't know whether the girls would be prejudiced regardless of direct experience.

Aha, I can't say for injured Payton McNabb, but Riley Gaines' mother attended an xtian college and Riley

... appeared in campaign advertisements for former US Senate candidate Herschel Walker, and spoken at a Donald Trump rally. She also supported the campaign of US Senator Rand Paul by appearing in a TV ad for him ...

It's a compelling argument, though - not just being out-competed, but also injured. Potentially true in many team sports.

As O Really says, "it's really painful to have to agree with legislative people I normally consider moon-barking droolers," but it won't be the end of the world if trans women athletes are banned. We survived for most of our lives without them.

That said, it's a soft stance I'm taking. I haven't really sat down and read/watched someone make the case for trans women athletes.

[Vrede too]

TV news: One current HS school student will be affected by the NC ban, just one.
Meanwhile, many many more are affected by the fearmongering and hate.

[O Really]

TV news: One current HS school student will be affected by the NC ban, just one.
Meanwhile, many many more are affected by the fearmongering and hate.

Yeah, I wondered just how big a problem it could be.
I still like the idea of keeping (former) males out of women's sports, though, although, instead of a blanket ban it might be done on a sport by sport basis. Would (former) boys have an advantage in soccer?

[Vrede too]

TV news: One current HS school student will be affected by the NC ban, just one.
Meanwhile, many many more are affected by the fearmongering and hate.

Yeah, I wondered just how big a problem it could be.
I still like the idea of keeping (former) males out of women's sports, though, although, instead of a blanket ban it might be done on a sport by sport basis. Would (former) boys have an advantage in soccer?

I played adult mixed soccer for years. On average the men were better, but we didn't have any former men AFAIK. Some of the women were dynamite, though. I suspect that the same is true in high school. In middle school the genders may still be pretty equal. I coached one middle school age boys team that had a girl on it. She was great, better than most of the boys.

Adult or high school a male is more likely to injure a female than vice versa. However, the males may still suffer more injuries overall, from other males or from just playing more aggressively.

[O Really]

I'm not concerned about the random strong and tough girl who can earn a spot on the football team. And certainly there are some sports in which males/females can compete on level ground. Horse sports come to mind, as an example. But for those in which the average male has a significant advantage over the average female, the trans people should pick another sport. Even in non-violent sports like golf, tennis, track/field, males will have an strength/size advantage over females of equal skill.

[O Really]

With anti-transgender laws occupying so much time in state legislatures, I thought I'd spend a few minutes to see if I could understand why it's such an important issue - apparently up to crisis level in some states.

I don't know what I expected, but I thought surely transgender people are contagious, or have a high criminal rate or something, but no. Their biggest crime seems to be just existing. So how many people are we talking about here?

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/ ... ed-states/

There are about 1.6 million transgender people in the US. That sounds like a lot, but it's only about twice the number of homeless, a fifth of the number of autistics and a third the number of schizophrenics. I was hoping to find some information on new legislation to address issues of schizophrenia, but alas, it seems not.

However, if you assume many if not most of the anti-transgender people are trumpers, and you find by definition that trumpers carry symptoms of schizophrenia, then you've got your answer.

Schizophrenia is a serious mental disorder in which people interpret reality abnormally. Schizophrenia may result in some combination of hallucinations, delusions, and extremely disordered thinking and behavior that impairs daily functioning, and can be disabling.

[Vrede too]

With anti-transgender laws occupying so much time in state legislatures, I thought I'd spend a few minutes to see if I could understand why it's such an important issue - apparently up to crisis level in some states.

I don't know what I expected, but I thought surely transgender people are contagious, or have a high criminal rate or something, but no. Their biggest crime seems to be just existing. So how many people are we talking about here?

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/ ... ed-states/

There are about 1.6 million transgender people in the US. That sounds like a lot, but it's only about twice the number of homeless, a fifth of the number of autistics and a third the number of schizophrenics. I was hoping to find some information on new legislation to address issues of schizophrenia, but alas, it seems not.

However, if you assume many if not most of the anti-transgender people are trumpers, and you find by definition that trumpers carry symptoms of schizophrenia, then you've got your answer.

Schizophrenia is a serious mental disorder in which people interpret reality abnormally. Schizophrenia may result in some combination of hallucinations, delusions, and extremely disordered thinking and behavior that impairs daily functioning, and can be disabling.

The GQP has found a wedge issue that they think they can exploit. It didn't work out for them in the 2022 elections, but they're partly correct. Support for trans people is more tepid than it was/is for gays, and our own conversations have reflected that. I keep remembering back in the early 1980s sitting with a lesbian friend in a bar. I remarked that I thought someone neither of us knew out on the dance floor might be trans. She quite disdainfully said something along the lines of, "They're weird."

I didn't pursue it, but I was a bit shocked. I assumed solidarity that wasn't there at all.

LGBT: History of the term

... From about 1988, activists began to use the initialism LGBT in the United States. Not until the 1990s within the movement did gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people gain equal respect. This spurred some organizations to adopt new names, as the GLBT Historical Society did in 1999. Although the LGBT community has seen much controversy regarding universal acceptance of different member groups (bisexual and transgender individuals, in particular, have sometimes been marginalized by the larger LGBT community), the term LGBT has been a positive symbol of inclusion....

In 2016, GLAAD's Media Reference Guide states that LGBTQ is the preferred initialism, being more inclusive of younger members of the communities who embrace queer as a self-descriptor. Some people consider queer to be a derogatory term originating in hate speech and reject it, especially among older members of the community.

[O Really]

I might agree with your lesbian friend about the weirdness. I think we can agree that being gay or bi isn't a choice, and those people are saying in effect, "here's my body, and it works differently from yours." OK so far. But once you start saying "I was born with psychological gender defects and I need surgery/chemicals to make my body match my mind" I see that as a bit different. Probably as authentic as being gay, but more difficult to understand or relate to.

And if you say you relate to both or neither standard genders, fine, but if you want to usurp a perfectly good plural pronoun to refer to yourself, you're weird.

[Vrede too]

I might agree with your lesbian friend about the weirdness. I think we can agree that being gay or bi isn't a choice, and those people are saying in effect, "here's my body, and it works differently from yours." OK so far. But once you start saying "I was born with psychological gender defects and I need surgery/chemicals to make my body match my mind" I see that as a bit different. Probably as authentic as being gay, but more difficult to understand or relate to.

And if you say you relate to both or neither standard genders, fine, but if you want to usurp a perfectly good plural pronoun to refer to yourself, you're weird.

So, if a person does not identify as lesbian, gay or bi, does that mean that they are non-tertiary?

[O Really]

So, if a person does not identify as lesbian, gay or bi, does that mean that they are non-tertiary?

May be, but certainly born with non-standard features requiring substantial after-market modification.

[Vrede too]

So, if a person does not identify as lesbian, gay or bi, does that mean that they are non-tertiary?

May be, but certainly born with non-standard features requiring substantial after-market modification.

Like aspiring TV/movie stars?

[O Really]

So, if a person does not identify as lesbian, gay or bi, does that mean that they are non-tertiary?

May be, but certainly born with non-standard features requiring substantial after-market modification.

Like aspiring TV/movie stars?

Sorta, but using a car analogy, the aspiring stars are getting a lift and oversize tires. The transgender people are getting a new tranny and rear end differential.

[Vrede too]

viewtopic.php?p=182692#p182692

Something that you may have thought impossible:

Tucker Carlson Might Have Just Delivered His Most Racist Fox News Rant Yet
The Fox News host suggested Tennessee lawmaker Justin Pearson, who is Black, talks like a "sharecropper."

Yeah, I saw that earlier this morning. What an ass.

You did it again, gone in just 10 days!

Montana says, "Hey Tennessee, hold my beer."

Montana House Republicans discipline Rep Zooey Zephyr

Montana Republican lawmakers have voted to bar transgender Democratic lawmaker Zooey Zephyr from the House chamber.

She sparked a backlash last week when she said lawmakers would have "blood on their hands" if they restricted medical care for transgender youth.

Ahead of Wednesday's vote she vowed to "do what I have always done: I will rise in support of my community".

Republicans accused her of stoking violence and violating the chamber's decorum with her comment.

On 18 April Rep Zephyr registered her opposition to a proposed bill that would ban gender-affirming care for transgender youth in Montana.

"I hope the next time there's an invocation, when you bow your heads in prayer, you see the blood on your hands," Rep Zephyr said in reference to the high rates of suicide risk among transgender youth and adults.

She spoke the truth and RepuQs are ridiculous buttercups to say that's stoking violence. ALL of the trans-related violence comes from their hateful team.

... Rep Zephyr will keep her seat, but the measure bars her from being present on the House floor, anteroom, or galleries. She will only be allowed to participate in votes remotely.

Muzzled, sort of. It wasn't like the GQP listened to her, but they did just hand her a national megaphone.

Republican Majority Leader Sue Vinton, who introduced the motion, told lawmakers during debate on Wednesday that Rep Zephyr's actions put lawmakers and staff "at risk of harm".

... Rep Zephyr, who represents the Missoula area, is the first openly transgender lawmaker elected in the state of Montana, and one of a handful of transgender lawmakers serving in state houses across the US.

In an interview with the BBC, she said she stood by her remarks and there was "blood on the legislature's hands".

"I wasn't being hyperbolic," she said. "When the speaker asks me to apologise for those remarks, what he's actually asking me to do is to be silent as my community faces real harm and real dangers." ...

I did not live in Zooey Zephyr's Missoula district and don't know if I would have supported her in the Dem primary. "one of the bluest districts in the state" so she probably didn't need much help in the general, but I'm proud of Missoula for sending her to the Leg.

This is an interesting plot twist:

(RW GQP) Montana governor lobbied by non-binary son to reject anti-trans bills
David Gianforte, who uses he/they pronouns, said they urged father Greg to stand up against ‘unjust, immoral’ legislation