The Music Thread

[Vrede too]

Not at all. I'm saying that you and O Really have expressed strong feelings on the issue while I'm more wishy-washy because my privilege sometimes makes me clueless, NOTHING more.

You ought to know by now that when I think you're wrong there's little ambiguity to it.

Got it. Your post wasn't completely clear to me.

I'm not sure that I give a shit about a musicians background except as an enhancement (Twain). Swift isn't my style of music, but she made it on her own and she thumbed her nose at her maga fans by speaking out about trump.

I do have a lot of mixed feelings about individual legacy musicians. I guess I look at them individually.
Doc and Merle were a good thing.
Hank and Jr. were not.

Yeah, I just meant that we have different opinions, without being assured that one is "wrong" or "right".

I'm not a fan of country nor pop, so neither Twain nor Swift are my style of music, either. I just like the occasional song. O Really's post just got me interested in their backgrounds and Shania's Cinderella story was unknown to me.

Thanks, for mentioning Swift's anti-MAGA stance, it got me to read further about Twain. Apparently, she really shook up the country establishment and its con view of women.
Public image and reception

Legacy

... "she was doing the Taylor Swift thing before Taylor Swift even arrived." Swift has cited Twain as one of her most prominent musical influences....

Cultural impact

Now, whether it can be said that a Canadian like Shania is automatically misappropriating AMERICAN country music is a different matter, gol durnit.

Wiki doesn't mention Twain's politics, so she probably kept them private as many musicians choose to do. She was a feminist by example, is a vegetarian, is a devotee of an Eastern religion rather than xtianity, and is a long-time resident of Switzerland. So, not the stereotypical country lifestyle, either.

[billy.pilgrim]

Not at all. I'm saying that you and O Really have expressed strong feelings on the issue while I'm more wishy-washy because my privilege sometimes makes me clueless, NOTHING more.

You ought to know by now that when I think you're wrong there's little ambiguity to it.

Got it. Your post wasn't completely clear to me.

I'm not sure that I give a shit about a musicians background except as an enhancement (Twain). Swift isn't my style of music, but she made it on her own and she thumbed her nose at her maga fans by speaking out about trump.

I do have a lot of mixed feelings about individual legacy musicians. I guess I look at them individually.
Doc and Merle were a good thing.
Hank and Jr. were not.

Yeah, I just meant that we have different opinions, without being assured that one is "wrong" or "right".

I'm not a fan of country nor pop, so neither Twain nor Swift are my style of music, either. I just like the occasional song. O Really's post just got me interested in their backgrounds and Shania's Cinderella story was unknown to me.

Thanks, for mentioning Swift's anti-MAGA stance, it got me to read further about Twain. Apparently, she really shook up the country establishment and its con view of women.
Public image and reception

Legacy

... "she was doing the Taylor Swift thing before Taylor Swift even arrived." Swift has cited Twain as one of her most prominent musical influences....

Cultural impact

Now, whether it can be said that a Canadian like Shania is automatically misappropriating AMERICAN country music is a different matter, gol durnit.

Wiki doesn't mention Twain's politics, so she probably kept them private as many musicians choose to do. She was a feminist by example, is a vegetarian, is a devotee of an Eastern religion rather than xtianity, and is a long-time resident of Switzerland. So, not the stereotypical country lifestyle, either.

Interestingly County is open to a lot of very different people. Who could have possibly predicted k.d. lang hitting the country charts.

For that matter, music has mostly been open to all comers. When musicians try to close doors to newcomers, maybe it's because they are worried about the new person being better than they are.

[Vrede too]

Interestingly County is open to a lot of very different people. Who could have possibly predicted k.d. lang hitting the country charts.

For that matter, music has mostly been open to all comers. When musicians try to close doors to newcomers, maybe it's because they are worried about the new person being better than they are.

By objective measures - sales, tours, wealth, longevity - Swift and Twain are better than pretty much everyone.

[O Really]

Interestingly County is open to a lot of very different people. Who could have possibly predicted k.d. lang hitting the country charts.

For that matter, music has mostly been open to all comers. When musicians try to close doors to newcomers, maybe it's because they are worried about the new person being better than they are.

There was some kerfuffle some years ago, and maybe continuing for all I know, about the pop country music vs the "real" country. But like it or not, music evolves. And of course haters are gonna hate no matter what. If, in an effort to be "real" country, a singer did a good rendition of George Jones, he'd get bashed as a poser/copier. If he does original music, he's not "real."

Reminds me, though, of the"perfect country song."

Play it all the way through, and listen to the voices.

[GoCubsGo]

There was some kerfuffle some years ago, and maybe continuing for all I know, about the pop country music vs the "real" country. But like it or not, music evolves. And of course haters are gonna hate no matter what.

Taylor agrees.

[O Really]

So I usually try to live in the present and not in the past, but sometimes a bit of nostalgia is good. Yesterday, Lady O and I decided to enhance our beach cruise a bit. We drive up and down (and actually live on) the road that was once US101, in some places named "Pacific Coast Highway." Through here it's "Coast Highway", "Carlsbad Boulevard," etc. but is all old 101 and goes mostly along the beach. Usually we're just going from here to there and try not to take for granted the world we live in. But yesterday we took the top down, and tuned the Sirius** into 60's and 70's, turned it up more than we geezers would usually do and headed south down the old 101.

Along the way there were the usual bunch of surfers, "california girls", strange characters, the occasional hot rod or woody, and of course lily white tourists from Wisconsin wandering around shirtless just because they're in California on holiday and nevermind that it's only 65ish. But it didn't take long to realize the difference in life/times then and now - particularly in the music. The music was, overall, much "kinder and gentler" than now, romantic themes, and even the young angst expressed in something like "Midnight Confession" was not violent or tragic. I don't know that the music was better, nor that the artists were more talented - probably not - but it was a much better experience than riding to maybe hip hop.

**I don't subscribe to Sirius and rarely use it, but for some reason they never got around to turning it off after my "trial" time. Maybe they will eventually, but so far not for over a couple of years, so we'll see.

[GoCubsGo]

Somehow I had never seen this.

Hilarious.

[Vrede too]

Somehow I had never seen this.

Hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlwimUxUME

Me neither, thanks! Denny Doherty rocked the John Lennon look, or vice versa.

So impressive. Even while performing she still worries about her potassium intake

This is fantastic. Everyone just just having fun, messing around so we know they're having to lip-sync. I love that Cass had a live mic and sings a 5th harmony over the track and has SUCH a voice she is almost as loud as the speaker system.

This is a very cool performance! Michelle eating a banana, John talking to Michelle during the song (a closeup! would be edited out today), Denny throwing the mic around, and Mama Cass really belting out the lyrics over the record!

Love how Michelle loses her microphone (1:15) and ends the song singing into a banana

[O Really]

Saw them way back in the day. Showed up schnockered and two hours late and still put on a great show.

[GoCubsGo]

Saw them way back in the day. Showed up schnockered and two hours late and still put on a great show.

Kind of funny, can't seem to find a good video of them performing California Dreamer live.

[O Really]

Saw them way back in the day. Showed up schnockered and two hours late and still put on a great show.

Kind of funny, can't seem to find a good video of them performing California Dreamer live.

We could discuss what is a "good" vid, but here they are live at Monterey.

[Vrede too]

Kind of funny, can't seem to find a good video of them performing California Dreamer live.

Maybe because the title is "California Dreamin'"?

We could discuss what is a "good" vid, but here they are live at Monterey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK86FymsbjE

Great minds. You beat me to it with the same video I found. That's something, performing "California Dreamin'" in Monterey at one of the all time classic festivals. There's also this, sans Mama Cass of course:


The Mamas & the Papas perform "California Dreamin'" at the 1998 Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony

Strong voices still. No lip syncing here or at the 1967 Monterey Pop Festival version you posted.

[GoCubsGo]

I saw the Monterey video, either the soundtrack was off or it was dubbed and you could barely hear Mama Cass.

[Vrede too]

I saw the Monterey video, either the soundtrack was off or it was dubbed and you could barely hear Mama Cass.

Is this any better? Somewhat different video, but the audio may be the same . Cool to see Jimi Hendrix getting into it (0:35).


The Mamas & The Papas - California Dreamin' (Official HD Video)

The 1998 Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony came just in time. John Phillips, 65, died 3 years later and Denny Doherty, 66, died in 2007. Only Michelle Phillips, 78, survives.

What else was going on in 1967?


California Dreamin'

That's a jarring contrast.

[GoCubsGo]

That's a jarring contrast.

I'll say.

Another contrast.

Anything with Margot Robbie has my approval. (Really good movie.)

[O Really]

There's probably a paucity of quality live video from most of the 60's groups. In part because of the recording tech, but also because the real sound live wasn't all that great compared to what we're used to.

[Vrede too]

That's a jarring contrast.

I'll say.

Another contrast.

Anything with Margot Robbie has my approval. (Really good movie.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD7qwYxLKHo

for the movie and casting.



Nominations 190, Wins 48. Brad Pitt did especially well, including an Oscar, a BAFTA, Chicago Film Critics, Golden Globe and a SAG.

Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Character details, Historical characters

Mama Cass Elliot and Michelle Phillips were members of the folk band the Mamas & the Papas. The sheet music for their song "Straight Shooter" was found on the piano at the murder scene in the Tate–Polanski residence. The song is also used in the film and teaser trailer. Polanski had an affair with Phillips while he was married to Tate. After the Tate murders, Polanski suspected Michelle's husband, John Phillips of the killings out of revenge for the affair.

[GoCubsGo]

Mama Cass Elliot and Michelle Phillips were members of the folk band the Mamas & the Papas. The sheet music for their song "Straight Shooter" was found on the piano at the murder scene in the Tate–Polanski residence. The song is also used in the film and teaser trailer. Polanski had an affair with Phillips while he was married to Tate. After the Tate murders, Polanski suspected Michelle's husband, John Phillips of the killings out of revenge for the affair.

[/quote]
There was a whole lot of affairs going on with Michelle and more.

Good times.

[Vrede too]

There was a whole lot of affairs going on with Michelle and more.

Good times.

I saw that, including with Denny Doherty, which must have been awkward. Then came her affair with Gene Clark of the Byrds. "Go Where You Wanna Go" was her motto.

Oddly, the band fired Michelle for 2 1/2 months in 1966. We almost missed out on the banana mike! She was even married to Dennis Hopper for 8 days!

[GoCubsGo]

There was a whole lot of affairs going on with Michelle and more.

Good times.

I saw that, including with Denny Doherty, which must have been awkward. Then came her affair with Gene Clark of the Byrds. "Go Where You Wanna Go" was her motto.

Oddly, the band fired Michelle for 2 1/2 months in 1966. We almost missed out on the banana mike! She was even married to Dennis Hopper for 8 days!

It was a very busy time for her.